bork Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Good info here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifreeze Notice the GM problems with Dexcool. Soo I found Shellzone is still ethanol based and fleetguard.(maybe more) It is more hazardous but I believe better for our situation.(older Subs, maybe pre 2002? dont know) I know in the diesel forums, most guys are annal about using the right stuff in older diesels that weren't designed yet for the extended life stuff (propylene) I'm pretty sure Tractor Supply Co sells Fleetguard. I want the concentrate so I can get my ratio right! http://www.fleetguard.com/pdfs/product_lit/americas_brochures/go5eg.pdf . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I buy the plain green stuff - Ethelyne Glycol - for all my cars. Never had a problem with it in Subaru's because of the lack of dissimilar metals. I don't like what I've seen of the systems that use the Dex-Cool. The worst neglected and nastiest cooling systems I've seen have run that stuff. The G05 stuff isn't so bad. At least I haven't seen the level of nastiness that I have with Dex-Cool. The new Subaru blue long-life stuff is still too new to really appreciate. I've had a few people decide to use it - but at 4x the cost ($40 vs. $10 for the green) it's hard to justify using it for most people because it doesn't last 4x as long. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 The dexcool seems to really have problems if any air is in contact with the coolant. There's lots of stories of it sludging up real nice. In an old endwrench article, Subaru specifically said not to use OAT coolants (i.e. Dexcool or dexcool clones) in Subaru engines. But then Subaru did come out with that 'super coolant', which is almost certainly an OAT based on its long life claims. But you can't tell for sure since they pulled that 'trade secret' trick on the label. The super coolant was very much likely done more to meet consumer demand for lower maintenance needs on a vehicle, not because it is actually better than the old coolant. G-05 is a formulation by BASF and licensed to various coolant producers such as Zerex. It's a hybrid OAT / HOAT, supposedly good for aluminum engines and offering benefits of both OAT and traditional silicate based coolants. Zerex did come up with an 'Asian' formula a couple years back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hohieu Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Unless you're going non-toxic, then it's all ethylene glycol. As already mentioned, it's the corrosion inhibitors that distinguish the different types (along with variously colored high tech dyes). I wouldn't use Dexcool, particularly in a Phase II 2.5 , for reasons mentioned by Porcupine. If it springs a leak, it'll suck in air as the engine cools and lead to the formation of sludge and, therefore, clogged coolant passages. They also have a reputation for dissolving certain types of plastics. From what I've read, the Japanese OAT extended life coolants are very good. Even Ford uses them in many of their newer vehicles. And they're all more or less the same: Toyota, Honda, Subaru, etc... If you go this route, buy whatever is least expensive in your market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bork Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 I buy the plain green stuff - Ethelyne Glycol - for all my cars. Never had a problem with it in Subaru's because of the lack of dissimilar metals. I don't like what I've seen of the systems that use the Dex-Cool. The worst neglected and nastiest cooling systems I've seen have run that stuff. The G05 stuff isn't so bad. At least I haven't seen the level of nastiness that I have with Dex-Cool. The new Subaru blue long-life stuff is still too new to really appreciate. I've had a few people decide to use it - but at 4x the cost ($40 vs. $10 for the green) it's hard to justify using it for most people because it doesn't last 4x as long. GD Where do get the plain ole Green stuff? I dont see it in advance auto stores, nor wally world, autozone etc... They are all extended life coolants or 50/50 mixes. I thought the extended life was a propylene based. I was at tractor supply co & didn't see the " fleetguard" only fleetcharge. The Shellzone looks to be online only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjw Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Its at autozone. It's they're house brand and in all the autozones I have been to, its in the top shelf/rack all the way to the left. runs about $11 a gallon, non-diluted. http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/AutoZone-1-gal-green-conventional-antifreeze-and-coolant?itemIdentifier=540722 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hohieu Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 (edited) Unless you're buying a low toxicity coolant, full strength coolant is >90% ethylene glycol. Diethylene glycol, corrosion inhibitors, and dyes comprise the rest of what's in a jug of coolant. Traditional glycol based coolants in the US used silicates and phosphates as anti-corrosion agents. But their use has either been drastically reduced or replaced altogether by organic acids. Premature water pump failure was one of the factors that led to this change. Perhaps this is why people are finding that the water pumps on 2.5 Subarus are more robust. Edited October 27, 2011 by hohieu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I buy the plain green stuff - Ethelyne Glycol - for all my cars. Never had a problem with it in Subaru's because of the lack of dissimilar metals. I don't like what I've seen of the systems that use the Dex-Cool. The worst neglected and nastiest cooling systems I've seen have run that stuff. The G05 stuff isn't so bad. At least I haven't seen the level of nastiness that I have with Dex-Cool. The new Subaru blue long-life stuff is still too new to really appreciate. I've had a few people decide to use it - but at 4x the cost ($40 vs. $10 for the green) it's hard to justify using it for most people because it doesn't last 4x as long. GD .. the only systems be it Dexcool, GO-5 or Green that turn into some acid eating crud are neglected systems..any reading of the cars manual will say that the extended use of the original cars coolant is for when it is new..after that time or mileage is to be cut to approx 60% or maybe even less.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) Where do get the plain ole Green stuff? I dont see it in advance auto stores, nor wally world, autozone etc... They are all extended life coolants or 50/50 mixes. I thought the extended life was a propylene based. I was at tractor supply co & didn't see the " fleetguard" only fleetcharge. The Shellzone looks to be online only...I usually shop at Napa..they carry the "Zerex Green" and the Shell low silicate formula..no 2-ethyl like many of the other green colored or long life dexclones..read the back side of the bottle..some conventionals have 2-ethyl in them.. Edited October 29, 2011 by Petersubaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) The dexcool seems to really have problems if any air is in contact with the coolant. There's lots of stories of it sludging up real nice. In an old endwrench article, Subaru specifically said not to use OAT coolants (i.e. Dexcool or dexcool clones) in Subaru engines. But then Subaru did come out with that 'super coolant', which is almost certainly an OAT based on its long life claims. But you can't tell for sure since they pulled that 'trade secret' trick on the label. The super coolant was very much likely done more to meet consumer demand for lower maintenance needs on a vehicle, not because it is actually better than the old coolant. G-05 is a formulation by BASF and licensed to various coolant producers such as Zerex. It's a hybrid OAT / HOAT, supposedly good for aluminum engines and offering benefits of both OAT and traditional silicate based coolants. Zerex did come up with an 'Asian' formula a couple years back. ..having seen the occassional unknown coolant / air leaks in many other cars within my family and friends, ..with the introduction of air to Dexcool it will slightly sludge up or contain rust particles within the coolant depending on the type of motor..with G05 within a very short period of time to leave large white crusted residue within the hoses and have had aluminum parts corrode severely..for the Green coolant it just crystalizes around moving parts like the throttle body shafts etc...the last case I saw actually changed the idle of the car...I bought a VW vanagon 13-14 yrs ago and on the advice from a vw engineer at the vw headquarters at a car show I went to on their site..I was advised to use the gm version of dexcool and have since done with absolutely no problems..the previous owner ran the vw silicated coolant and the thermostat had to be changed because of excess white stuff building up on it..to this day it has the same thermo and is absolutely clean in appereance and so is the bottom of the overflow tank... also I run my '86 jetta diesel on dex for the last 10 yrs (I bought it used)..my '86 loyale has been on dex since 2001 and I see nothing happening to dissimilar metals since the same copper style rad has been in there for 15 yrs now.. ran my 86 turbo on dex for 5 yrs and the rad rotted from the outside in..off to the scrapeyard it went..nor am I a proponent of dexcool, but just what works from my experience.. Edited October 29, 2011 by Petersubaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ever Victorious Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Notice the GM problems with Dexcool. While many different GM vehicles and motors were filled with Dexcool at the factory in the 90's, it was by no means all GM vehicles that suffered the IM gasket failures due to Dexcool. Actually, the worst offender was the 3.1L (Chevy designed) V6, though most GM V6's had a problem with said gaskets to one degree or another. Yet during the same time period, the 1.9L (Saturn designed) I4's used Dexcool and had almost no IM gasket failures, and very few cooling system failures related to coolant *type*. Most Saturn cooling system failures were due to either people running the water pumps too long without replacement (drawback to timing chain driven vehicles: no mechanic poking around in there reminding you to replace that part), or due to vibration cracking the radiator tanks in a specific place. That said, with an older Subaru motor, give me plain old ethylene glycol any day of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 While many different GM vehicles and motors were filled with Dexcool at the factory in the 90's, it was by no means all GM vehicles that suffered the IM gasket failures due to Dexcool. Actually, the worst offender was the 3.1L (Chevy designed) V6, though most GM V6's had a problem with said gaskets to one degree or another. Yet during the same time period, the 1.9L (Saturn designed) I4's used Dexcool and had almost no IM gasket failures, and very few cooling system failures related to coolant *type*. Most Saturn cooling system failures were due to either people running the water pumps too long without replacement (drawback to timing chain driven vehicles: no mechanic poking around in there reminding you to replace that part), or due to vibration cracking the radiator tanks in a specific place. That said, with an older Subaru motor, give me plain old ethylene glycol any day of the week. since you did not mention toyota I thought i would included it..in other words the N/Amer. GM chevy, the saturn/honda suv, and toyota/pontiac vibe all shared the same coolant, being gm dexcool..(a different formula from other compnaies such as zerex, havoline or prestone.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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