jboymechanic Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I have a 1996 Legacy wagon with 5MT and 3.9 gears. I'm about to pick up a 2.5 to make a franken motor and I thought it would be a good time to look into adding a limited slip rear differentail. As I understand it, all Outback wagons came with LSD in the rear, but were 4.11 or 4.44 gears. Can I purchase an LSD from a 1996 to 1999 Outback in my local junk yard and swap the gear set from my open 3.9, or are the two differentials totally different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Outback's do not have LSD's..... not in any of those years. The one's with LSD's are the EJ255 turbo Outback XT's which didn't come out till 2005. And I'm not even sure all of those got them. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jboymechanic Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 In that case, what vehicles would have an LSD unit that would be compatible with my 1996 Legacy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 87 to 89 RX. 88 and 89 Full Time 4WD Turbo 5 speeds 91 Legacy SS Then there's a long interval till you get to the USDM turbo models with R160 LSD's like the '04 Forester XT, etc. All but the 87 to 89 LSD's are some form of VLSD. Which are basically useless after about 50k miles and cannot be serviced or rebuilt so unless you plan on buying a new one - don't bother. Clutch types from 87 to 89 can be rebuilt with parts from Nissan. They are very sought after - I sell them for over $400 to the Datsun 510 guys. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 A lot of the 00-04 Legacy Outbacks had rear VLSD's in them. They are a pretty weak LSD though, not much lockup even with a lot of wheel spin. Better than nothing though. You have to check if it's a VLSD by turning one tire and seeing which direction the other turns. If it easily spins the opposite direction, it's an open diff. If it tries to turn the same direction until the driveline slop is gone and then turns the other direction with resistance, it's a VLSD. Don't pay more than $50 for one. If you're building a franken motor, you might consider taking the transmission apart and putting an OBX helical front diff in. It will make a much bigger difference than a VLSD rear will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jboymechanic Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 How difficult would it be to put the Helical Gear LSD in the trans? Is this diff below all I need, or will addition parts be required? This style of LSD should be acceptable for daily street use as the helical gear design should still allow each of the front wheels to spin at different speeds through turns, yes? http://www.ebay.com/itm/180828335051?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_2507wt_1110 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 If you're building a franken motor, you might consider taking the transmission apart and putting an OBX helical front diff in. It will make a much bigger difference than a VLSD rear will. That's what im going to do this month I still want a rear LSD how but at a later date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) A lot of the 00-04 Legacy Outbacks had rear VLSD's in them. They are a pretty weak LSD though, not much lockup even with a lot of wheel spin. Better than nothing though. You have to check if it's a VLSD by turning one tire and seeing which direction the other turns. If it easily spins the opposite direction, it's an open diff. If it tries to turn the same direction until the driveline slop is gone and then turns the other direction with resistance, it's a VLSD. Don't pay more than $50 for one. If you're building a franken motor, you might consider taking the transmission apart and putting an OBX helical front diff in. It will make a much bigger difference than a VLSD rear will. my wife's 03 does (confirmed with test outlined above) - it 'may' have only been in the 'all weather package' and/or LL Bean models - not sure on that. Her's does have the AWP but is not LLBean. And i dunno if any 4 cylinders got it. Is there a way to move the gears over or swap the VLSD unit to get the correct final drive? Anyway - it would be a moderate amount of work to get a 'weak' lsd. Will any Miata rear lsd guts swap in? Or just buy a quaife,torsen or Tochigi Fugu w'ever. but major $$$$$$$ on those. Edited March 1, 2012 by 1 Lucky Texan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 You know what really bothers me.. in Europe I guess it was an option but 2nd gen wagons had a VLSD And yeah I was looking at the prices of Kazz it's friken $1,000 From what I understand any rear LSD has to fit the R-160 right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 How difficult would it be to put the Helical Gear LSD in the trans? The general consensus on NASIOC is that if you have to ask how difficult it is - you aren't prepared to do it. You may as well rebuild the transmission with new main shaft bearings and new syncro's, You will have to reset the R&P clearances. Special tools are "required" but if you are handy at precision measurement and reading tea leaves you can get it done with only a few common things like a dial indicator, mic's, etc. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jboymechanic Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 The general consensus on NASIOC is that if you have to ask how difficult it is - you aren't prepared to do it. You may as well rebuild the transmission with new main shaft bearings and new syncro's, You will have to reset the R&P clearances. Special tools are "required" but if you are handy at precision measurement and reading tea leaves you can get it done with only a few common things like a dial indicator, mic's, etc. GD That's kind of what I thought. I've rebuilt old three speed autos before, but I have never tore into a Subaru manual trans, kind of why I wanted to stick to a rear differential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 If you are just going to install the diff without rebuilding the transmisison (silly IMO) then you don't need a press. If you are doing a full rebuild you will need access to a press for the whole process. The shafts don't come apart any other way. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 i rebiuld alot of standard trans and gd is right its diffacult to the point if you have to ask you shouldent do it i had to set my press up specificaly for theese trans pressing apart the main shaft and pinion shaft if very diffacult to do and seting them up after is hard to do the rest just falls together i use the posi out of a 88 rx with the crown and pinion from a 96 outback to get a 4.44 posi for my race buggy but i run auto box the diffs are fairly interchangable some differance in the size of bolts on crown gear and axle out puts but that posi is very tough it breaks the axle outputs before any diff trubbles i call those the axle fuse i run a 31 paddle tire anyway those diffs are gold if you can find one buy it cause if they know what they have they will never sell it i have one extra and i wouldent sell it for a 1000$ cause its that rare up here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 If you put in just the diff, all you have to set is backlash. Subaru also makes it easy by using threaded carrier bearing housings, so you don't have to wongleflute with shims. I hate shims. If the transmission isn't making any bearing noises or shifting poorly, you can justify splitting the case just to put a diff in. It's not hard and as long as you keep everything where it came from and the bearings lined up with the pegs in the case, it goes smoothly. As far as early 00's outbacks with vlsd's, I've pulled them out of 4cyl ones and 6cyls, the only ones that for sure don't have them are VDC models, they use the abs to do fancy things so they have an open diff to keep from interfering with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Yeah but the transmission I thought the bearing cups had to come off unless I'm mistaken. having said that since talking about the transmission I wonder if I should buy some seals for the axles and I know I need one for the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Yeah but the transmission I thought the bearing cups had to come off unless I'm mistaken. The front diff carrier bearings have to be replaced. The OBX diff's don't come with them and you'll destroy the old one's getting them off the open diff. having said that since talking about the transmission I wonder if I should buy some seals for the axles and I know I need one for the input. Stub shaft seals are simple - input shaft seal can only be accessed by splitting the transmission case. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 That's what I thought, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jboymechanic Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Do these work worth a ************ and are they durable? http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALL-YEARS-SUBARU-HITACHI-R160-DIFF-/200679405560#vi-content Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I heard "meh" on NASIOC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jboymechanic Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Looked pretty cheap, thought I'd see if any one had experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 yeah search on NASIOC I know they have a few threads on people who ran them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Do these work worth a ************ and are they durable? http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALL-YEARS-SUBARU-HITACHI-R160-DIFF-/200679405560#vi-content could be better than a worn-out viscous unit. I guess I'd want to know more but, the price seems OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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