glkiller2 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 So I'm diggin into my loud valves. I took the rocker assembly off my EJ22 and I'm almost happy to find one HLA is stuck compressed. I don't WANT to pull my oil pump:). It's the front exhaust valve on drivers side back piston. I've read many threads here but can't seem to find one that details the removal of HLAs from the rocker assembly. The Haynes book says they should be removable by hand and to soak them in Carb cleaner for awhile if not easy to free them up. I haven't tried that hard yet and would really like to NOT put carb cleaner on and I presume in them. Are they supposed to push out from the back of the rocker arm? I read one guy saying he kept putting his screwdriver into his hand I think using this method. Should I have to use a bearing puller? Bike chain link remover? Here's a little more background: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=130927 Any tips from U gurus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Needle nose pliars. After you get it out, look at the bottom: you will see a tiny hole. Hold the lifter upside down, with pressure on the plunger head and stick a small instrument into that hole simultaneously. This will release the small check ball and squirt the old oil out of that hole. Careful: it really does SQUIRT! Submerge the entire lifter in either mineral oil or some kind of solvent and work that plunger in and out until it frees up. If if won't free up in about 5-6 tries, it's not going to (usually). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I use a small pick under the edge to pop them loose, once the O-ring is unseated they pull out easily by hand. Kerosene works well for cleaning gummed up lifters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glkiller2 Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) Thanks guys, got em out, they look like hell, got the collapsed one unstuck, but it won't pump up. Got some black chatter marks on my cams, not too bad, uniform, but not great. On the bright side, the insides look extremely clean, EXCEPT the center bolts were so gummed up with crud they were hard to pull out. I used a hole gauge and micrometer to measure the bores, there's about a 3 thou deviation between the various bores. I'm not convinced that if I put new TINY orings on the lifters that it would do any good. For that matter all new lifters prob wouldn't seal up either. Could see evidence on a couple bores of polishing, meaning the lifter is moving in the bore. Rocker arms have divots where they ride the cam lobes, about a millimeter across:( This engine is on it's way out 4 sure. Gonna pull it and see what else there is to see. LET THIS BE A LESSON NEVER put a new windshield in your old suby:) it'll give you something else to do. Edited March 24, 2012 by glkiller2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glkiller2 Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) Anyone with a reasonably priced, GOOD running young motor (or rebuilt) should PM me (for that matter a nice car with a recent rebuild), I'm in Central Oregon. I'll keep my eyes open for options in the meantime. I'm not interested in travelling to the valley to look at junkyard motors that have been drinking rain for god knows how long. Edited March 24, 2012 by glkiller2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I just blow a bitt of compresed air trough the oil pasage pops them out. Check oil pump/ crank seal if dryed up will pull air into lifters and make it tick clean them up good like perivously mentioned look for berring material in lifters indacates bad berrings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glkiller2 Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 Thanks but this thing has almost 300,000 miles, it's been SLOWLY losing performance and MPG for awhile, I'm over it... Now that I've seen the cams and the condition of the rockers I know there's worse news inside. Gonna drive around the old GL for awhile till I find a newer motor or newer car. Or end up rebuilding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 The wear honestly doesn't sound that bad. You will loose power and mpg if the lifters are collapsed because the valves aren't opening as long or as far as they should be. Now that you have the lifters cleaned out, put the motor back together and run it. Put on a new oil filter and toss a quart of dex/merc ATF into the engine oil. After a few days of driving, change the oil and filter. The ATF has a lot of detergents in it so it does a great job of cleaning oil sludge out of the engine. The 2.2's aren't worth rebuilding, there's so many good condition ones in junkyards that it's much easier to swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Frankly the only way to really pump up one of those lifters is to drive the car like you stole it. You know, hit a freeway on-ramp a few times kind of driving. If the plunger moves freely and pops back up to its original height, it'll pump up, but only by driving it. I agree that putting all that stuff back on and driving is a good bet for right now. And yeah, if it was me, I'd be keeping my eye out for a good deal. Even as good as the 2.2 engine is, their life is still finite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glkiller2 Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) The 2.2's aren't worth rebuilding, there's so many good condition ones in junkyards that it's much easier to swap. I've read this response alot and it kinda staggers me that most members would rather put in an engine that has 150K and an unknown history of maintenance than rebuild the thing to get a practically new motor. From what I gather you can rebuild heads and block for around $1500 why is this not worth it? If I got 2 150Ks that make it to 300K (cross your fingers) for say $700 each (running motors) thats 1400 and 2 swaps of labor. (BTW I CANNOT find one locally that runs ready to go for under $800 maybe in Portland or the valley but not here.) I DO see a car with auto trans 100K for under 1000. why not spend 1500 do the swap once and enjoy a fresh rebuild? or buy a car with under 200K for 1500 and do no swaps at all. all seems like half dozen of one six of the other to me:) Edited March 24, 2012 by glkiller2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Not worth rebiulding 2.2 what a'm i going to do with the one's i rebiult that are new wraped in plastic waiting for a home funny some one will need one somtime. They do rebiuld nice way better than 2.5 s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glkiller2 Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 You have a couple IVAN? what price? nevermind Canadaland:), I bet it's as much to ship as it cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glkiller2 Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 car in Redmond for $600 Automatic 100K gonna go look at next week. She said it doesn't run now but did recently and she has over $600 worth of tires that go with it hmmmmmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 go's for 1200$ new berrings rings surfaced block halfs and nurled pistons reasealed is very tight but just shot blocks i dont sell long blocks because to many different heads. I put theese 2.2 into 2.5 single cam cars because is way cheaper and heads will go strait onto a 2.2 makes for better relaibility.No idea what it cost to ship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glkiller2 Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 Frankly the only way to really pump up one of those lifters is to drive the car like you stole it. You know, hit a freeway on-ramp a few times kind of driving. If the plunger moves freely and pops back up to its original height, it'll pump up, but only by driving it. I agree that putting all that stuff back on and driving is a good bet for right now. And yeah, if it was me, I'd be keeping my eye out for a good deal. Even as good as the 2.2 engine is, their life is still finite. Did that before taking it apart... with Lucas, seafoam, just oil... It's had 3 oil changes in under 800 miles.... I usually drive around 2500 - 3500 RPM but I tried driving the hell out of it for a day after putting in these additives, shifting after 4000 up to 5000 trying to build up oil pressure. no difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glkiller2 Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 go's for 1200$ new berrings rings surfaced block halfs and nurled pistons reasealed is very tight but just shot blocks i dont sell long blocks because to many different heads. I put theese 2.2 into 2.5 single cam cars because is way cheaper and heads will go strait onto a 2.2 makes for better relaibility.No idea what it cost to ship? sounds like a fair price, if you were here I'd consider it. sry bud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 the engines i buy around here in texas are not "easy" to find, but if one looks, one finds. I will bet my $75 on any 2.2 under 150k at a local yard. The motor in my car, came from a junk yard. 135k, rear ended, punched the fuel tank so they couldn't start it. I bought it in good faith, and she runs like a champ. The single port 2.2 in my wife's car is from a 96-97 that was sitting since 08 in a local "mom and pop" yard. They were gonna sell the whole car with trans problems but someone stole the snowflakes off it, so they parted it out. I buy any 2.5 I see down here in TX now, when I see it. They are like fools gold. I can buy one as is for 75 bucks at most yards if I pull it. I split the case and see if the rod bearings are good, replace bearings, new head gaskets and valve stem seals and sell them for $1500 all day. I find outbacks and fozzies with "overheating" issues fro 900-1200 all the time and I snatch them up if I can, throw one of my junk yard 2.2's in it and resell. I bought a SS ej22t a few weeks back for $125 PULLED auto trans dead at 125k. I am looking for an Impreza coupe to build me a 22B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 The center bolts on the rocker assembly don't seat on a machines surface like th ones on the ends so oil seeps into the threads slowly. Makes a bunch of sludge. Did you check to see if there was any clearance between the lifters and valves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I've read this response alot and it kinda staggers me that most members would rather put in an engine that has 150K and an unknown history of maintenance than rebuild the thing to get a practically new motor.From what I gather you can rebuild heads and block for around $1500 why is this not worth it? I can get a 2.2l tested, pulled and on a pallet with a warranty for $300 from the junkyards around me. The 2.2's go for fricken ever, so if it's in the low to mid 100k's it's got loads of life left in it. Yours probably does too, but you need to reassemble it and drive it rather than calling it quits just because it has a little wear in it. I rebuilt a 2.2l once. I put it in the car, drove it around town for a week took it cross country. The hood latch cable broke early in the trip, so I couldn't check or top off the oil. By the time I got to Wyoming, it was under 2qts of seriously black nasty oil. The rings went from fresh, to partially seated, to oil starved in one trip. It burned oil from there out. I replaced it with a 2.2 that I got out of a 92 Postal legacy for free because they had swapped it due to a cracked flexplate sounding like rod knock. That engine had about a billion stop and go miles (rural mail delivery 6 days a week for 16 years) and runs great. Doesn't burn oil, has decent power and is wicked reliable. I even had the temp gauge pegged a few times, once overheated so bad it was down to about 1/2 power, and it still runs like a champ. Hard snow wheeling with only 1 fan on an undersized radiator will do that. With the 2.2l's, the car really falls apart around the engine unless it's seriously neglected. So the chance of getting a good one from a junkyard is a good gamble. They aren't hard to swap so if you do get a bum one, it's easy to do the warranty claim. Last 2.5l to 2.2l swap I helped with was done in a gravel driveway with a borrowed engine lift and hand tools in a weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glkiller2 Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 So you guys think I should try some new HLAs? Fair- I didn't check clearances (should have) So hey the lifters on #1 and #3 seem to be fine even #2 looked good. I read that it was prone if the problem was the oil pump o-ring to have issues on the #1 piston. Does that mean the ring is OK. I will have a MECH pressure gauge on it next time I start it to tell for sure. The rebuild PDF I have says to manually pump up the hla in an oil bath. I tried that with the collapsed one and it didn't pump. maybe I should soak them all in gas and work them first to clear out any crud that could be preventing the little ball (check valve?) in the end from sealing??? Do they come apart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glkiller2 Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) NAPA has these- Valve Lifter (Hydraulic) Part Number: ATM 0565021 Product Line: Altrom Imports $25.65 At Warehouse Oreilly- Sealed Power - Engine Valve Lifter Part # HT2254 List $17.99 Each subarugenuineparts.com- (no pic to confirm right part) that 1.8 designation is scetchy...same one? Cylinder head & valves, Valve lifters Impreza, Legacy - 1.8l, impreza & legacy ENGINE »Cylinder head & valves Subaru › Legacy › 1991-1994 List Price : $27.73 Your Price : $21.13 Would I be better off goin to the stealership for a better part? Edited March 25, 2012 by glkiller2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 if it's not stuck, put it back in. when you drive it it will pump back up. could take 1 hour or more of driving to pump up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glkiller2 Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 mine was stuck I used pliers to pull out, now it moves freely. should I soak them all to move freely? them put them all back in to let the oil pump pump up? Of course when they are extended the others don't want to move (feels stuck but could be working right.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glkiller2 Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) Needle nose pliars. After you get it out, look at the bottom: you will see a tiny hole. Hold the lifter upside down, with pressure on the plunger head and stick a small instrument into that hole simultaneously. This will release the small check ball and squirt the old oil out of that hole. Careful: it really does SQUIRT! Submerge the entire lifter in either mineral oil or some kind of solvent and work that plunger in and out until it frees up. If if won't free up in about 5-6 tries, it's not going to (usually). Think I like this method... if I put the old ones back in I should at least get them new external orings right? the old ones look shot Edited March 25, 2012 by glkiller2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glkiller2 Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 workin good! drivers side the collapsed one will not pump up all others pump now to the other side.. If I only have to buy 1 I'm IN I'll put it back together and try it out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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