kabarakh Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 83 Subaru GL. I've been having issues with the car continuing to run, but I discovered that it will turn off when the alternator is unplugged. The alternator was going bad anyway, so I went ahead and got a new one, but the same thing happens. Alternator plugged in: car won't turn off with key. Alternator unplugged: car both starts and stops running with key. I'm at a loss, I'm going to change out the ignition switch next, but anyone else have any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old sub freak Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Hello there,well a few years back when we were getting alot of engines from Japan with 40,000 miles they had everything on them,carb,dist and altenator.well we slaped a engine in a gen one brat(i think) and low and behold it wouldn't turn off...hmmm? well it turned out that the altenator had a built in voltage regulator and the sub we were workin on had a exteneral voltage regulator.on the firewall i think. so if you get a alt with no built in voltage regulator you should be ok.having the extra V R kept power going to the distributor....anyway thats how i fixed it.boy talk about a shock ,turn off the rig and it still runs... good luck ,Todd:banana:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabarakh Posted April 7, 2012 Author Share Posted April 7, 2012 Pretty sure mine only has one Voltage regulator, it's the internally regulated one in the alternator. As far as I can tell from my research every subaru after '81 used internal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man on the moon Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 You may have a bad ground or loose wire somewhere, I would start in the ignition switch. FTR: The car will run with either the battery OR the alternator disconnected, but not both. Don't ask how I know... Btw, the car can drive at least three miles without the alt hooked up and the headlights on. I must have a heck of a battery! It can also drive indefinitely without the battery installed if you jump start it--it gets real fun if you stall it while driving it like this, though. Good luck explaining what happened to whomever you flag down to help you. (Again, don't ask how I know!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindrummer Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 i think you car is dieseling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95legwagon Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 i think you car is dieseling /\ i dont think so..... dieseling is a very easy thing to diagnose as nothing sounds like it but a diesel..... its most likely a bad ground near the ignition switch if i had to put my money on it.......we all know how subaru does theyre grounds on these cars...... i had to redo all my grounds to bare metal.... hey OP good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 You're alt is powering the coil somehow. Is this an out of the blue problem? Or did it start after some work of some kind? Does the charge light come on with the key? Then off with engine running? Try putting a diode in near the alt on the B/W wire. That B/W wire is backfeeding 12v from the alt. There should have been a diode in that circuit from factory, but it's not working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Could be a bad diode in the gauge cluster. See what happens when you unplug it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabarakh Posted April 7, 2012 Author Share Posted April 7, 2012 You're alt is powering the coil somehow. Is this an out of the blue problem? Or did it start after some work of some kind? Does the charge light come on with the key? Then off with engine running? Try putting a diode in near the alt on the B/W wire. That B/W wire is backfeeding 12v from the alt. There should have been a diode in that circuit from factory, but it's not working. I do not know if it's an out of the blue problem or not... When I purchased the car the battery in it was shot, but It also needed a new clutch so when I got it home I pulled the engine out to put in a new clutch. I was very careful about labeling everything though. My plan is to start by redoing all the grounds and install a new ignition switch. What kind of diode should I put on the wire to test it? Thanks for all the replies! I'm sure it's something stupid somewhere that I've missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 (edited) Someone else had the same thing happen to them. It turned out to be a problem inside the voltage regulator. The contacts stuck closed and that made a bridge to power even though the ignition switch was turned OFF. You might try tapping the VR like he did to clear the trouble. Here is a link you can refer to on this. Post #33 details the fix. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=130805&page=4 Edited April 7, 2012 by Cougar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabarakh Posted April 7, 2012 Author Share Posted April 7, 2012 Someone else had the same thing happen to them. It turned out to be a problem inside the voltage regulator. The contacts stuck closed and that made a bridge to power even though the ignition switch was turned OFF. You might try tapping the VR like he did to clear the trouble. Here is a link you can refer to on this. Post #33 details the fix. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=130805&page=4 I'll give that a shot, but as I stated in my OP, It now has a brand new alternator installed and is still exhibiting the same symptoms. My original thought actually was that the VR was going bad somehow, but with the new alternator installed I'm not sure if that was the case. My old one was definitley bad though, my in-dash charging gauge was almost on the red. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 FWIW - you dont have a "new" alternator - you have a rebuilt one. and yes, sometimes they can be junk right out of the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabarakh Posted April 7, 2012 Author Share Posted April 7, 2012 FWIW - you dont have a "new" alternator - you have a rebuilt one. and yes, sometimes they can be junk right out of the box. Would you put your money on it being the alternator or something somewhere else? I'd had to return this, get a different one, and then be in the same spot... Thats kinda why I was leaning towards upgrading/double checking my grounds and doing the ignition switch first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabarakh Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 The more research I do the more I think it could be the diode/resistor... does anyone know the value of that diode so I can pick up the right one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindrummer Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 /\ i dont think so..... dieseling is a very easy thing to diagnose as nothing sounds like it but a diesel..... its most likely a bad ground near the ignition switch if i had to put my money on it.......we all know how subaru does theyre grounds on these cars...... i had to redo all my grounds to bare metal.... hey OP good luck I had the same problems as kabarakh with my EA81 hatch i thought it was called dieseling i couldn't figure it out, local shop helped me out: "had to replace the remote wire on the Voltage regulator" in-wire fuse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabarakh Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 I had the same problems as kabarakh with my EA81 hatch i thought it was called dieselingi couldn't figure it out, local shop helped me out: "had to replace the remote wire on the Voltage regulator" in-wire fuse That's the most helpful answer to my mind so far! thank you! I'm just not used to having to deal with my car not turning off... not starting is easy lol. And the problem is weird enough and rare enough that I'm just not quite sure what to do next... Do you know the value of the fuse/diode/resistor or whatever it was that they installed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 In-line fuse sounds like a fusible link. Usually with a fusible link the rating is printed or stamped somewhere on the insulation/jacket. If that's the case you can check the wire for continuity from end to end. This assuming there are two wires coming from the alternator, not including the charge lead that goes to the battery/ fuse box. One will go to the gauge (for the light) the other to the fuse panel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindrummer Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 20 amp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindrummer Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) doesn't mean we have the same problem sounds like you are throwing money at your issue i have a hard time with electrical issues (never again VW) thats why i took her to the trusted shop in my neck o woods he replaced an ignition-VR wire and re-connected some ground wires "Free" cause i buy tires for all four vehicles there he also replaced the choke heater wire at a separate time learning how to ask the right questions and a little patience will pay off HUGE on the USMB i would try to find a wiring diagram and check to see if yours is all connected i wasted $20 purchasing a volt meter, and a lot of time thinking I'll figure it out just to drive to the shop frustrated and defeated, and he fixed it for free:banghead: Edited April 8, 2012 by blindrummer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabarakh Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 doesn't mean we have the same problemsounds like you are throwing money at your issue i have a hard time with electrical issues (never again VW) thats why i took her to the trusted shop in my neck o woods he replaced an ignition-VR wire and re-connected some ground wires "Free" cause i buy tires for all four vehicles there he also replaced the choke heater wire at a separate time learning how to ask the right questions and a little patience will pay off HUGE on the USMB i would try to find a wiring diagram and check to see if yours is all connected i wasted $20 purchasing a volt meter, and a lot of time thinking I'll figure it out just to drive to the shop frustrated and defeated, and he fixed it for free:banghead: I'm trying to avoid throwing money at it, that's why I asked... a 20 amp fuse is a lot less then a new starter switch. It needed a new alternator anyway. Grounds are already on my list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) A bad ground won't cause this kind of trouble. The problem is due to power getting to the ignition system while the ignition switch is turned off. As far as I know, the only way that can happen is a path through the regulator due to stuck relay contacts. You may be doing yourself a favor if you try disconnecting the voltage regulator to see if that kills the engine. If it does you know what you need to replace. A simple test that will most likely save you time and money. The ignition switch could be internally shorted and cause the trouble also but I doubt it is. Edited April 8, 2012 by Cougar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 He has an internally regulated Alt. no VR to unplug. to the OP....have you tried disconnecting wires from the ALT one by one? I'd start with the BW wire, pull it and see if the car dies. That BW wire is the one thing that really ties the IG. system to the coil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Thanks for the info Gloyale. I thought all the EA-81 models had external regulators. If there is no external regulator then replacing the alternator is in order, unless the OP wants to service the installed one. Do you concur doctor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 It is not grounds. It is not the VR(circuit in yours is different than early cars w/external electromechanical VRs) It is not the alternator. You have a shorted diode in series w/the charge light in the gauge cluster. Voltage is backfeeding thru the charge light to the ignition coil. Pull fuse #12? (charge light).Car will stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabarakh Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 He has an internally regulated Alt. no VR to unplug. to the OP....have you tried disconnecting wires from the ALT one by one? I'd start with the BW wire, pull it and see if the car dies. That BW wire is the one thing that really ties the IG. system to the coil. Yes, (more specifically I pulled the whole plug) and the car dies if the key is off, or if It's on and then I turn the key to off the car will shut down. That's why I was interested in the diode/fuse idea... So I know the problem is in that B/W wire somewhere, but I'm not sure if it's on the alternator end, the ignition end, or if the diode that was referred to earlier has stopped working. (thats why I asked about the value of it earlier, if I can just put a new one inline it sounds like a cheap easy option) However I wouldn't have known what to look at first if it wasn't for all these responses, again thank you to everyone! I'll get this figured out one way or the other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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