__aw Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I finally did the timing belt + oil pump seal + new water pump on my old 93 Loyale this past weekend, so first of all thanks to everyone who has posted all relevant information on that topic in the past (Miles Fox and GD specifically). The info shared here was super helpful. The biggest source of causing me to swear at the car was caused by the air conditioning components being in the way. First of all the condenser.. if that was gone I could have direct access through the grill (after removing rad of course). Next, the compressor, love to see that get deleted too, for easier access to everything from above. Anyways what I am getting at is, how reasonable is it to remove this stuff? It doesn't work and I don't live in a place where I need AC anyways, so I'm thinking why not just get rid of this stuff, so it's easier to work on the car in the future (and slightly less weight never hurts).There are three problems that I don't have the answer to: If I get rid of the compressor, could I just get shorter belts to take up the slack and call it good? Is there a non-AC Loyale? Is it environmentally safe to decompress the AC? I don't know whats in there or how to dispose of it. Is there anything else that I am overlooking related to removing the AC hardware that would need to be done? Does it affect any other systems or tie into the heating? Thanks in advance, I appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I'm surprised you left the condenser in there and worked around it if you're curious about removing your a/c components. I didn't hesitate to rip it out when I did that work. There are two aluminum couplings on either side of the condenser. Pretty sure it's just two bolts holding the condenser itself in, as well. Can't remember if they are located up abouts where the radiator bolts are, or if they are lower around the bumper area. I seem to think they were lower.. If there is any charge left in your ac it will release r-12 into the atmosphere, which, technically speaking, is not environmentally friendly. It *should* be professionally captured at a garage...now whether or not you go about releasing it the proper way, that's entirely up to you. If you pull out the compressor you will have to figure a way to mount the alternator, as the a/c compressor and the alternator share the same bracket (This is if you have an inboard a/c compressor and an outboard alternator, as is the most common set up. I don't know about the other models.) You can just take the compressor off the bracket and reinstall it with just the alternator attached to it, and yes, all you'll need is a shorter belt. The A/C system does not affect your heater at all. Without any/all the components, your heat/defrost etc will function the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storydude1 Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 PLEASE do not cut anything. If you could, snap a pic of the compressor and the hose leading to the condensor. I NEEEEEED one. 109* on my front porch IN THE SHADE. If it's the same as my compressor I'll buy the hoses off you if they are solid. As for removal, 3 bolts usually holding on compressor, hoseclamp-type of mount for the accumulator/dryer and I wouldn't bother with the interior stuff...unless you like pulling dashboards apart as a hobby.:-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 PLEASE do not cut anything wow, I really am sorry. If I'd have read this 3 days ago... I just cut my lines out on Friday =\ Hopefully the OP goes through with his plans and can help you out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__aw Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share Posted May 22, 2012 Hey thanks for the input. I won't have time to work on the car until this next weekend. If I can find a quick and obvious way to rig the alternator without the AC compressor, I'll go ahead with it. I won't cut anything. If it comes out in good shape you can have whatever you want for the cost of shipping. No promises anything will happen this weekend though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storydude1 Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Hey thanks for the input. I won't have time to work on the car until this next weekend. If I can find a quick and obvious way to rig the alternator without the AC compressor, I'll go ahead with it. I won't cut anything. If it comes out in good shape you can have whatever you want for the cost of shipping. No promises anything will happen this weekend though. Easiest way to rig alt. once compressor is removed is a shorter belt. And THANK YOU. I can deal with heat, but the heat out here is like a convection oven...rolling windows down just blows hot air into your face LOL. You might want to spray AC fittings with pbblaster or the like..they have a nasty habit of corroding together making removal .....interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man on the moon Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 The lines disconnect from the compressor easily, and from the fireboard just as easily. I cut and crimped mine near the compressor just to keep the oil in (I poured motor oil in after the gas was released). You can remove the compressor, too, I just left it in and disconnected the clutch wire. If you go the route of venting the stuff yourself, DON'T BREATH IT. It's bad. B A D bad for you. Once it's diluted into the atmosphere you're ok, but don't stand there sucking it in. There is a valve like what you would find on a bike tire on one of the hoses, loosen it up (just twist the inside bit and the stopper will come out) and let it go. The valve is on the line running on the battery side of the engine bay, iirc. That said, a garage has the proper capture equipment and is a wiser choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__aw Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share Posted May 22, 2012 I'm not going to vent this stuff into the atmosphere. I already feel like a wongleflute for letting my car leak oil into the watershed for so long... it was a simple fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 id like to add that there does exist a bracket (2 brackets actually) that came on non ac ea82s stock. it moves the alt to where your compressor currently is. this eay you can check your coolant w/o getting bitten by your alt fan. i dont remember having to buy a smaller belt, but i thnk the shorter of the two belts that are already there. my 86 gl already had the bracket, my 91 loyale did not. make sure to get the little washer that goes in there, its like 1/4'' thickor so. hth, RV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick James Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 .. been thinking about doing the same operation, _aw can live without AC and other than supporting the alternator, for now, that compressor is dead weight.. ..there's an extra fan attached to the main radiator,,is that AC related? If so, shall it be removed or does it help cool the main engine coolant system also? and I guess the radiator in front of the main radiator is for AC...can that go? thanks _aw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 and I guess the radiator in front of the main radiator is for AC...can that go? The clutch fan is the one you would want to remove. Keep the electric fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man on the moon Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 The clutch fan is the one you would want to remove. Keep the electric fan. But keep the pulley! You will be very sad if you toss the pulley before you try to replace the fan belt. (That fan pulley also drives the water pump). The condensor (the small radiator you mentioned) can stay or go, either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanurys Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 The electric fan on the radiator is the main fan that is activated by the temp switch in the radiator. The mechanical fan is on most ea82's equipped with A/C. That is the fan to delete. Just get some washers and use the existing nuts to hold the water pump pulley on. I actually put another slim ebay electric fan in place of the mechanical one. It's great when I'm crawling and need some extra cooling (for the engine, that is ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick James Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 you know, it prob doesn't make sense to remove any fan (unless yur adding like kanury's did?)...there's gotta be some cooling benefit, right? ..think there's a thread (searched, couldn't find) where someone rigged the electric fan with a toggle switch operated from the inside of the car, so they can put it on whenever they wanted.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 it prob doesn't make sense to remove any fan Bumps up throttle response a little bit. Fuel mileage increases too. Albeit these results are marginal. If anything, makes it easier to work on. Opens up a bit of space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick James Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) def wanna open up space and a little more gas mileage wouldn't hurt.. but why is there a "clutch" fan?? is it sucking air toward the rear of the engine or blowing at the radiator? _aw did you do take the compressor out yet?? [edited] I just did ...in the pic the white vertical is rolled up paper towel...the bolt holes appear to line up good enough to replace paper towel with a long bolt and sleeve as a spacer... can use same belts and pretty sure it would be structurally sound.. edit..did I say condenser?? I did mean compressor, right? and I could be wrong about using the same size belt due the compressor adding height....or not..I dunno, yet Edited May 25, 2012 by Rick James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man on the moon Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 A clutch fan doesn't cool the clutch. It has a small, heat activated clutch in it. The fluid in the clutch is like water at room temperature, but thickens as it gets warmer, resulting in more and more RPMs from the fan the warmer the engine gets. At optimal engine temp the fan is spinning near it's maximum speed. I forget which way it blows, but I want to say it blows toward the front of the car. Turn the car on and put a piece of paper in front of the radiator and it should become fairly obvious. I rigged my electric fan to come on with a toggle switch. Took and old extension cord with a broken plug, stripped off the outer insulation. Used two of the three innard wires to rig the fan to a switch near the steering wheel, plenty of places to put it, or let it hang. Wire via the battery, and just make sure to shut it off if you turn the car off. I wired it up because the thermo-sensor it is hooked to went out and the fan quit coming on, but you can rig it for whatever reason you like . It is out at the moment due to it having gotten obnoxiously loud, and with the A/C being out of the car the clutch fan is sufficient to cool the motor for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storydude1 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 All auto fans pull air through the radiator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man on the moon Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I forgot to mention--the compressor is the A/C piece with the belt, it turns, compresses stuff. The condenser is the small radiator looking piece in front of the regular radiator. The compressor pressurizes the gaseous stuff in the system into the condenser. Then the stuff moves through lines to the evaporator. The evaporator is behind the glove compartment, above the passenger's knees. There it expands and cools [insert stuff i forgot from high school chemistry here], and has air blown over it that is cooled, which you feel coming out of the vents. Eventually the stuff circulates and does its thing! I might have flip-flopped the part names around, but the gist is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick James Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Storydude, thanks for clearing that up.. if for whatever reason _aw changes his mind on removal, you can have my parts...you in buffalo ny??...i'm thinking no cause it doesn't get that hot there does it? moonman, it must have been your post I remember reading some time ago re; the toggle switch..great ingenuity loving the clear explanations...I need these and have no shame.. or at least am losing any shame.. many thanks to all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__aw Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 Storydude, thanks for clearing that up.. if for whatever reason _aw changes his mind on removal, you can have my parts...you in buffalo ny??...i'm thinking no cause it doesn't get that hot there does it? moonman, it must have been your post I remember reading some time ago re; the toggle switch..great ingenuity loving the clear explanations...I need these and have no shame.. or at least am losing any shame.. many thanks to all Hey guys, thanks for the discussion, as to my schedule on this car, I don't know how soon I will get into it. I have a lot of projects going on right now, and since this car is running, it has a lower priority to get worked on than anything else. In other words don't hold off finishing your own projects waiting for me to send you parts from the other side of the continent. I still plan on taking out the AC parts, and I will gladly pass them on to someone who needs them, but I can't promise when I will do it. As for the paper towel alt bracket, yeah, that is a missing link that I still need to solve. I am going to do some junkyard visits soon and see if I can find a non-AC loyale, maybe I can find the appropriate bracket? I'm not opposed to home made brackets but I need to do a JY trip anyways so I might as well look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 i have a bracket set $20 shipped. if you are so inclined RV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6 Star Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I have my alternator set up on a bracket like Subruise is talking about. No a/c compressor, no power steering, no a/c fan or condenser. Maximum mpg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storydude1 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Storydude, thanks for clearing that up.. if for whatever reason _aw changes his mind on removal, you can have my parts...you in buffalo ny??...i'm thinking no cause it doesn't get that hot there does it? moonman, it must have been your post I remember reading some time ago re; the toggle switch..great ingenuity loving the clear explanations...I need these and have no shame.. or at least am losing any shame.. many thanks to all No, I'm in NW AZ now. I am from Buffalo. Thanks for the offer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick James Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) Is it just hoses you're looking for?...not the compressor? 6 star..how much of an increase in gas mileage?..or is it negligible...loving all the extra space Edited May 25, 2012 by Rick James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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