soobie_newbie67 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 We have 5 Legacys between 95 and 99 and my car is the only one that acts like this. The rest of our Legacys all have a solid feeling pedal. when you press it, you dont have to press very far or hard before the car starts breaking. But in my car, your always pushing the pedal almost its full travel to the floor to stop the car, and it wont lock up the tires. The brakes dont start applying lightly until the pedal is halfway down. It feels kinda soft and like the brake system itself doesnt have much power. I replaced the master cylinder thinking that might be it, but it still feels exactly the same. I have NO AIR in the system. We flushed 2 quarts of brake fluid through the system to make sure of that, and i used a vacuum brake system bleeder, not one of those hand pump ones either. I've inspected all lines, rubber and metal, and found no problems. Could it be the vacuum booster itself? Another thing i've noted is that when i'm on loose surfaces and slam on the brakes, making the ABS do its thing, the car will use the ABS for one stop, then the light comes on and it wont work till i shut off the car and turn it back on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I am thinking that you may be having a problem with your slide pins at individual brake cylinder(s). On my wife's 98 OBW last year, the brake pedal action seemed normal, but the car just wouldn't stop well. Upon inspection, on the left front, one of the caliper slide pins was frozen, so not much pressure was being exerted by the brake pad on the rotor. I fixed that problem, and all is well. Upon further thought...................since you replaced the master cylinder, and are sure there is no air in the lines, then I could understand there could be a problem with the vacuum booster. Having to push the brake pedal near full travel to the floor, is a sign that it is something more then a stuck caliper slide pin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 you could idle the car for several minutes, then pull the vacuum line at the booster to see if there's vacuum. I think also, there's a valve inside the line to the booster that can get moisture buildup and even freeze - affecting the boost. is there any severe rust or damage or modifications to the firewall near the MC? if so, the MC could be flexing a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobie_newbie67 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 car is 100 percent rust free. no mods either. I'll check the slide pins just to be sure, though I doubt they'll be a problem. I did my Outback front brake swap about 7k miles ago hoping that might help, but the brakes felt the same even after that mod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mzop Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I have same problem, any luck figuring out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) Sounds like seized caliper slide pins. Easy enough to figure out, pull your front tires and look at your brake pads. If their worn unevenly than your calipers need to be replaced. If not than there's another problem Did you check the push rod play when you changed the master cylinder? The Booster pushrod might need to be adjusted Could also be a bad proportion valve as well Edited November 7, 2014 by mikaleda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I was having a similar problem on my '94 and '96 brakes just not working very well even if you were just about standing on the pedal. Yours might have other issues. On mine it was fixed with new rotors and pads on the fronts. The rotors were sort of ok but they had corrosion splotches on them and I think they just weren't up to the task. After the replacement they were really good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Old thread hopefully the OP solved his issue by now. mzop, Do you have disc brakes in the rear or drums? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I had similar conditions (1995) to find the abs module itself was leaking out of one of the plugs on the bottom of the unit. Statistically, i have had 3 MC failures with EJ soobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec03 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I had the same problem on a 97 subaru. The brake pedal would depress too much but the car would still stop without difficulty. A second pump was solid and only went half way down. I purged the brake fluid without effect. I took it in to a shop who replaced the pads and cleaned the calipers. Problem solved. I still wonder how this solved the problem. A stuck guide on the caliper would only lessen the braking on that caliper and cause the car to pull to one side or the other. It shouldn't effect the amount the brake pedal depresses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 mike - I think the caliper mount bracket flexes as the rotor is only getting pushed-on by the inner pad. Or it could twist I guess if only one slide pin is hung-up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) If the slide pins are seized the caliper piston has to travel farther and that small amount of play will be multiplied at the master cylinder and even more at the pedal. Basicly a 1/16 inch difference of travel at the caliper can be 2 inches difference at the pedal This is basic principles of hydraulics and leverage Edited November 8, 2014 by mikaleda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mzop Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 All brakes are disc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 All brakes are disc That's what we are talking about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pginter96 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Ive been having similar issues on my 97. All calipers are brand new, master cylender is fine and so is the booster. I bled the brakes 3 times and still had a squishy feeling pedal. Its done this since i bought the car. The only thing ive been told that actually makes sense is that its by design. With dual piston front calipers (with tiny pistons) and small rears, the calipers have to travel outwards more to provide proper braking force, especially the front dual pistons. Are your other cars dual pistons? They put them on the 2.5 cars, the 2.2 had single piston front and drum rear. It could just be a different feeling from that. Otherwise, i dont know what to say. As long as you checked for rust in the slide pins and the pads/clips where the pads go (easy ways is to check for even wear on inner and outer pads, if inside pad is worn more than outside that means something somewhere is ceased) ALSO check the brake hoses, too. If the fluid gets contaminated or the hoses age, the rubber swells to the point where it can stretch when you push the pedal, creating that soft feeling and no leaks will be noticed, cause there arent any. Its a fairly rare occurance, but it does happen. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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