Dairyboy Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I have a 1996 Subaru Legacy wagon. Driving, everything fine, then nothing--just died, cranks fine, fire at spark plug, used little gas in intake, fires and tries to start, so fuel problem most likely. Checked fuel pump connector in right rear and power to only right top two connectors--about 5-6 volts and 1 volt, with key in on. Haynes says to check fuel pump fuse first--cannot locate where that fuse is!!! Book says relay is under fuse block on left, (doesn't make sense to have to take off fuse block!) up under dash on sidewall. Will take that and see whether relay is good. Just wondering if anyone knows where a fuse for fuel pump is located! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 can you hear the pump run for a coupla seconds when you cycle the key to 'ON' ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suba_GL_87 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I don't remmer which is fuse is in the hood (black fuse box) depend of year. Or under the dashboard and check if fuse is blown. 15AMP. 1 lucky Texans- yes, he's right.. you are hearing. I'm hearing impaired. Haha. Fuel pump is where inside your wagon behind the rear passager seats(couch). You just have to alittle remove the carpet and see the mental cover and hear if said "Hummm" when key on, no running. if not.. It's failure of fuel pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthguy Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Haynes says to check fuel pump fuse first--cannot locate where that fuse is!!! Book says relay is under fuse block on left, (doesn't make sense to have to take off fuse block!) up under dash on sidewall. Will take that and see whether relay is good. Just wondering if anyone knows where a fuse for fuel pump is located! Thanks! I've been digging around in the fuse block area recently because I'm going to add some fog lights to my 95. There are a few relays up behind the fuse block (they are hard to reach because of all the various wires there). I don't think it is actually "under" the fuse block, but just above it. Put your head near your brake pedal and dig around up there and you'll see what I mean. If you do get the point where you determine that the fuel pump is bad, best bet is to get an OEM pump from a salvage yard. Cheaper and better quality than what you'll get at the parts store. I picked up a couple a few months ago for about $10 each (without the sending unit). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dairyboy Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 Thanks, but no I cannot hear well, but if not power to the connector, then it wouldn't work anyway. Thanks for the info about relay not being under the fuse-block, will look and see if I can locate a green connector for the relay of the fuel pump. Nothing labeled fuel pump or other recognizable name on either fuse block. Haynes says after checking fuse, then check relay, but haven't found a fuse so didn't take the next step yet. Thanks for the info on fuel pump, though I doubt it is bad since I don't have 12 volts to the clip at the fuel pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 I think you can locate and connect a pair of green connectors under the dash. Doing that should cause the fans and many relays to cycle, you might be able to feel that relay operate - of course, that doesn't ment the contacts inside are functioning...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dairyboy Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 Took the pump relay out and seems to check out fine. When two "brass" colored blades are connected to battery, then there is a click and there is then continuity between the two copper colored blades of the relay. Put back into socket, still no current to the Black/yellow (upper left) of plug at fuel pump, only power is at top middle and top right--low voltage to both of these. This morning seems to be less than one or two volts (about 2 in middle, 1 in right). Anyone know if there is some connector between the relay and the fuel pump that might be coming loose? Am going to check continuity between the relay plug (black/red) and the fuel pump plug (blue/yellow) on upper left of plug. No power to either of the bottom terminals of fuel pump plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dairyboy Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 No continuity on Black/yellow to Blue/yellow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dairyboy Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 Interesting day! Went in and hooked things back up and put in relay, still nothing, so put in a wire back to fuel pump from the relay--didn't connect it, but no 12 volts on the upper left terminal. Went back to the relay and found that it switches on and then clicks off almost immediately, even with the fuel pump disconnected. So relay must be a problem. Put in a jumper at relay and got 12 volts back to pump and it runs, but doesn't seem to pump enough gas to keep engine going. Tomorrow will get a new filter and replace that, and try to find a used pump at the salvage yard, plus pick up a relay or two while there. Any special ideas. Still puzzled why didn't have continuity on the wire harness at first, then when I put on jumper, then both the new wire and upper left terminal had 12 volts. Apparently the bottom left is a ground wire since it would show 12 volts from top left. Will work on it later this week or next. Thanks for the thoughts and advice so far. Hope to get this figured out!<br /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dairyboy Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 Installed new relay, still the same. I suspect that everything is okay with relay and fuse. Hooking volt meter to wire shows that current gets to fuel pump and it works for just an instant when you turn on the key, then goes off. So I think there must be a pressure switch activating that shuts off current to the control circuit of relay and this shuts off current to fuel pump (as it should) explaining why I have no current there when testing. Still nothing starting, so must be in some other part of fuel supply system, probably electrical since the car died "instantly" while driving. Has spark at a spark plug. The schematic shows fuse 16 as the fuel pump circuit, though not sure if that is on this year. It is good since current getting to pump for the instant when key is turned on. Will continue on with other parts since I am now pretty confident that the fuel pump itself is working okay, unless someone else knows something else to check! Have new fuel filter to pick up today, though doubt that is problem since didn't slowly act more and more starved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 have you checked to make sure fuel is reaching the engine? how much fuel is making it up there? (have you changed the fuel filter yet?) Are the injectors working properly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Put a couple of jumper wires on the fuel pump plug so you can watch voltage as it runs. Running for a few seconds when the key is on and then turning off is normal. You may also want to tee in a pressure gauge in the engine fuel line to watch the pressure. I've seen many pumps work on the start cycle but then fail to run all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dairyboy Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 Don't know yet if fuel is making it to engine or injectors. Have checked to see that even in run--power goes to fuel pump for that instant before shutting off. Will be later in the week before I can do more. Easy way to check fuel at injectors? Reading some other threads makes me wonder if maybe the timing belt has broken--explains the sudden death! No check engine light was on either after dying. Check engine light goes out after cranking for a few seconds now. Thanks for suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 If you put some fuel in the intake and it started, it can't be a T-belt. You can clamp off the return fuel line, or pull it and check the pressure downstream of the injectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dairyboy Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 It didn't start, just tried to fire. Had just pulled plug wire and had spark there, so put a little fuel in intake and it sputtered, but has not run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 (edited) You should really check the fuel pressure before going any further. The pump will kick on for a few seconds and go back off if the key is on but the engine isn't running. Plugging the green D-check connectors together under the steering column will cycle the fuel pump as well. A weak fuel pump will still pump, it won't have enough pressure to actually run the engine though. So verifying pressure at the fuel filter under the hood is the best thing to do. Anything below 30psi points to a weak pump. Edited November 19, 2014 by Caboobaroo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dairyboy Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 Thanks, and will see what I can do about checking the fuel pressure. Got the fuel filter this evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 as already noted, if the timing belt were broken it wouldnt even attempt to fire. If you still arent convinced on that front, it is pretty easy to pull an outer belt cover to verify if the belt is intact & turning - three 10 mm bolts definitely need to check fuel pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dairyboy Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 Have a fuel pump pressure tester ordered, but took off the fuel filter and no gas there, so tried to start and the pump cycled on and off--maybe a pressure switch saying pressure reached? Anyway, found another pump at salvage and will install next week. Glad these are simple to change and work on--if one knows where to look! Thanks for all the advice so far and will let everyone know how things go. Have a great weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papajam Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Dumbest question ever asked. Is there fuel in the tank? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 It does not matter as the pump comes out the top. Unless it was full to the max you're ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Dumbest question ever asked. Is there fuel in the tank? It does not matter as the pump comes out the top. Unless it was full to the max you're ok. I think that perhaps he was asking "is there [enough] fuel in the tank for the pump to actually be pumping?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dairyboy Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) I thought the question was very practical and appreciated it. More than once in my life, I have found that even when someone "knew" they had plenty of gas, it wasn't so! Haven't taken out fuel pump yet, so cannot look in, though should be plenty. On way home from work tonight, I kept thinking about how or why the relay only stays on for a second or two before shutting off--even when the pump is disconnected at the pump plug right above tank. If it does this with the new pump, how would it work? Is the pressure "switch" somewhere else rather than in/on the fuel pump? Or is there some reason it must be connected to the pump to "cycle" or run properly? Anyway, was thinking of jumpering the relay connector to make the pump run and see if it pumps gas to the filter before I pull it. At this point there is no pressure in the fuel line since it is disconnected at the fuel filter. If no gas is pumped at this point, will add a gallon or two and see if any difference before I proceed to remove pump. Edited November 24, 2014 by Dairyboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 it is doing exactly what it is supposed to be doing when the engine is not running. I beleive the ecu has something to do with providing the fuel pump signals to keep running once the engine is running 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 pull up the back seat and check the pigtail there. there is an intermediate pigtail from the seat to the fuel pump itself which is loicated behind the passenger seat under the carpet thru an oval shaped hatch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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