Romy Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I have a 2002 Outback with 260k. My engine developed a rod knock (so I'm familiar with that noise) which led me to swap in a 2000 EJ25 out of an Outback (it's what was available). It required changing the crank and d/s cam gears, as well as keeping the original '02 intake, but other than that was a pretty direct swap. I put on a new timing belt and associated idlers/tensioner, a new water pump, changed oil/coolant (both at proper levels), set intake valves to 0.007" and exhaust valves to 0.009" with the engine cold.It makes this noise: 2000 Subaru EJ25 Engine Ticking Noise by Jennifer Frederick, on FlickrFrom searching, I thought perhaps this was piston slap, but from what I gathered, that's supposed to go away when the engine is warmed up. Mine makes the same noise when the engine is cold or warmed up - I took thatvideo 4 different times, from cold to warmed up and it all sounds the same. The noise is louder from underneath the car, but I can't pinpoint which side - it sounds like both sides and in the oil pan as well. Really weird. It really sounds like valves but I've checked them multiple times now...I even tightened the valves to the tight end of the spec and still noisy (hence the 0.007" and 0.009" above). I'm basically out of ideas of what's wrong. I checked to make sure thetiming marks lined up twice. It has oil, it has coolant, the exhaust was torqued properly and the isn't leaking. The car makes good power, revs fine, drives fine, and otherwise behaves as it should.Any ideas? I don't think it's a rod knock as I just experienced that and it's a deeper more clunky noise. Could it somehow be the oil pump, pilot bearing, or throwout bearing? It sounds like a tappet noise, not a whine or other constant metal on metal contact but I'm so out of ideas now I'm not sure... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Certainly sounds like valve-train noise. When you checked valve clearance, what marks did you use to set the pistons at TDC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romy Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 I know, right? I'm letting the engine cool off now and will recheck. I used the arrow on the d/s cam gear with noon at cylinder 1, 3 o'clock at cylinder 3, 6 o'clock at cylinder 2, 9 o'clock at cylinder 4. There was already clearance on the intake/exhaust when at those locations. I suppose I could take the spark plug out and check to ensure it's at TDC, but the present valve lash at each position seemed to indicate it was correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romy Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 For what it's worth, here's a video of reving the engine. It was started relatively cold to make the video. There was a whine which I would assume is the pilot or throwout bearing (I doubt the latter as it has about 9k miles on it and rolled smoothly when I swapped engines). Pushing the clutch pedal in and out changes the noise and I do it throughout the video when at a constant rpm...it's the reason the noise changes at constant rpm. Video: 2000 Subaru EJ25 Reving Up Pressing Clutch in-and-out ticking engine noise by Jennifer Frederick, on Flickr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Boncyk Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Definitely sounds like valve noise to me. Have you done a compression test on the cylinders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romy Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 I personally haven't done a compression test. I'm in the middle of a move and all my normal tools are packed up en route to the new house. However, the wrecking yard I got the engine from claimed 190-200 psi on all cylinders. Beyond that, it drives well and doesn't smoke. And turning the crank over with a ratchet, I can definitely feel it has compression. Beyond that fuzzy descript though, I have no hard numbers. Tomorrow I can pick up a compression gauge and report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Piston location isn't a big deal as long as you had the cam sprockets on the correct locations at 3,6,9,12 o clock. If it runs and runs smoothly, compression probably isn't an issue. Have you used a stethoscope to narrow down the source of the noise? A long screwdriver works if you don't have a stethoscope. Put the end on the engine in various places and hold your ear to the handle. Just be careful of getting near moving parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Make sure your timing belt idler gear is not going bad! I pulled a 2003 that sounded like a bad rod knock and the T-Belt idler gear was hitting the water pump housing. The bearing was gone! I pulled a 2000 Impreza that was not running, PO said bad shake, you guessed it, the T-Belt idler gear was running on the inner race, with no ball bearings left in it. Two of them in one day! Get the Gates Kit's and always change the idlers along with the T-Belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Boncyk Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 It is notoriously difficult to diagnose noises from recordings, but the sound he's hearing doesn't sound like rod knock (or the classic Subie timing belt idler chatter). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romy Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 The timing belt tensioner is new as are all the idlers - from the Gates kit (which uses OEM idlers). Water pump is also new. They all looked fine with the enigine running - smooth rolling. Just to be sure the tensioner was ok, I pryed on it with a screw driver to increase tension and there was no change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romy Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) Piston location isn't a big deal as long as you had the cam sprockets on the correct locations at 3,6,9,12 o clock. If it runs and runs smoothly, compression probably isn't an issue. Have you used a stethoscope to narrow down the source of the noise? A long screwdriver works if you don't have a stethoscope. Put the end on the engine in various places and hold your ear to the handle. Just be careful of getting near moving parts. I'll try the screw driver thing. I used a long tube to my ear and it really didn't narrow anything down. Well, except that it was a lot noiseier under the engine than above the engine. It really sounds like valves (it sounds like they're tapping when near them) but also like something in the oil pan (also sounds like tapping near it). I don't think it's a rod knock but who knows at this point. The oil pump is a rotary thing so it shouldn't make that tappety noise, right? Are there any other internal things that might cause that noise? I'm going to check the valves yet again this morning. And beyond that, I'm going to call the auto wreckers I got this engine from - they have a warranty on it supposedly. Edited November 9, 2015 by Romy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Rod bearings are the only other thing that might make noise like that. If the sound is loudest from the center of the engine/oil pan area, gonna be rod knock on multiple rods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwick Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) It was really hard to listen to as the recording was lagging really bad and cutting in and out, but it almost sounds like something loose rubbing on the teeth to the flywheel that engage the starter, or a loose starter. Did you use your starter or the donors starter? Are you positive the clutch is OK? Did you hear the engine run before you bought it? If it wasn't make noise in the donor vehicle, but is making that now, it would have to be something on your end. EDIT: I paused the more recent video and let it buffer a bit and it played better. Definitely sounds like something rubbing on the flywheel teeth, especially as you revved it. Get a look at the flywheel teeth and see if they have shiny wear marks now on the edges. Look for metal shavings too. Verify the starters were interchangeable. Does Subaru use a different starter between auto and manuals? Is there a metal access panel that's removable on the trans? I know GM had one on some of their RWD trans and it was possible to get noise from that if loose and dented, etc. Given the orientation of a boxer engine, they transmit noise differently compared to an inline, so flywheel noise could emanate through the engine easier. I can hear the rubbing and zinging sound on my large stereo attached to the PC. Edited November 10, 2015 by Bushwick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavekayaker Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Pinched sheet metal plate that bolts to the bottom of the block? Did that one before... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romy Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 It ended up being the plate that bolts to the bottom of the engine. It was pinched/bent up. I took a picture when I pulled the engine out, which I can throw up here later. This new engine runs nicely now with no unusual noises. The newfound power compared to the old engine almost makes me rethink the turbo swap I've been planning. Almost. But that's for later. Thanks for all the replies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Here's a picture and more details from pointing him to the problem: http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/66-problems-maintenance/303354-ej25-ticking-valves-clearance-set-not-rod-knock-what.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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