Wayne Boncyk

It is notoriously difficult to diagnose noises from recordings, but the sound he's hearing doesn't sound like rod knock (or the classic Subie timing belt idler chatter).

Definitely sounds like valve noise to me. Have you done a compression test on the cylinders?

Hi everyone, It has been years since I posted anything here, given that we traded our venerable 1996 Outback in on a 2014 model a couple of years back, and I had gotten to the point where I knew just about all there was to know about that old car. But now I'm presented with a new problem, and I'm feeling kind of ignorant all of a sudden. My daughter recently acquired a 2002 Outback H6 VDC sedan, and recently (after a turn signal bulb change) neither the turn signals nor most of the indicators on the instrument cluster are working. I downloaded a service manual for the new old beast, and dutifully traced my way through the wiring, fuses and switches to the point where I'm 90% certain that the Ignition Relay is the culprit, but I can't find it on the vehicle. The manual makes reference to a "relay block" where a number of similar relays seem to be aggregated, but for the life of me I can't find that anywhere. Can one of you guys enlighten me - where can I find the "Ignition Relay" in this H6 VDC? Gracias in advance!

Wow! A debate of market economics cleverly disguised as a Sube mileage thread!! I'm glad that I wandered back to the forums after so many months away, and nipper & gary, I'm glad to see you trying to interject some commonsense into the storm. However, I can't just sit by and watch without throwing my two pennies on the table. Like it or not, we all must always be vigilant to balance the incentivization (the spur to greater creativity and the benefits that provides) of "free" market rewards, against the inherent nature of some humans to want to scam the system. No completely free market will ever work for long in any human society, because there will always be those who figure out how to "game" the system to reward themselves all out of proportion to their productive contribution to that society. I believe that the current crop of American CEOs and "Funds Managers" falls squarely into the category of those who game the system to their benefit, without contributing much of lasting consequence. IMHO, nobody on the face of the planet is worth a salary in the tens of millions of $$ per year, especially not when they also set up golden parachutes to provide themselves with additional millions when they tank the company and move on! Likewise, we have seen every socialist-communist-utopian economic scheme ever attempted, fail miserably. Why? Because there is absolutely NO incentive built into any of them to encourage people to innovate, contribute, or produce! They all rely on the "belief" that all people are willing to support the common good. A fallacy, as demonstrated over and over by my CEO example cited above. Virtually every attempt at a socialist economy that we've seen tried throughout history has degenerated into an oligarchy or dictatorship, where power and wealth are concentrated in the hands of a very few or just one individual, since they quickly learn how to play the game under their rules to their exclusive benefit. Until we devise a system of payment for labor that only rewards "real" productivity, we will have to manage the force-fight between those desiring more controls, and those arguing for a completely free and open system. The bottom line is that we as humans are driven in two mutually exclusive directions. We all, at least at some level, think that the common good is a noble objective, but we all are ultimately in it for ourselves to at least a certain degree. So, it is my belief that there is no perfect economic structure -- no matter what we do, it will be controlled by imperfect human beings.

Ahh, those crazy Canucks have all the fun!!

That's right. OBD-II wasn't mandated until the 1996 model year, so older models most likely have the older OBD system. There were some '95 models built to meet California air codes that incorporated OBD-II in '95. I believe those were limited to the 2.2L engine and Auto tranny though.

OK. You see what I saw. I'm going with the two for my fronts. The one we pulled out already was so badly messed up -- this whole process started with trying to get the front axle spline out of the hub, and 25 tons of hydraulic press force didn't budge it, so it also saw some serious torch time -- the seals weren't even recognizable as such when we got down to 'em, and the bearing roller cages were molten lumps of plastic when we got them out!

Hey, aircraft enginner, just as a follow-up... isn't it true that the rear bearings use 3 seals, and the fronts use only 2? That's what I seem to see when I check my reference manuals.

Thanks! That's perfect!

OK - Since none of the online order guys I have found seem to know this, where can I go, short of a local dealer, to get all the seals that I need? Any suggestions out there? I've not been happy with the parts counter at my local Sube dealership....

Hi, all! It's been a while since I've posted anything here, but I still have my '96 Outback wagon and with nearly a quarter million miles on the beast, she's in need of new front wheel bearings. I pulled one wheel and a buddy pressed out the bearing for me, but in the process the seals were wrecked. Of course I'd replace them anyway, but my question is, are the inner and outer seals for these front bearings the same part? All I can find in on-line catalogs is a reference to an outer seal, saying that two are needed per wheel. Does this mean one inner and one outer? Thanks!

PB Blaster has worked consistently (and relatively quickly) for me.

This sounds EXACTLY like the issue I had with my '96 OBW, when I had a non-Subaru thermostat installed. Here's the deal - the Subie t'stats are located near the bottom of the engine, in the coldest part of the system. The way the Subie coolant loops are designed, there needs to be a little bypass of coolant past the t'stat even in the coldest conditions, or you get a pretty large thermal gradient between the top and the bottom of the block. That can lead to a case where the loop into the radiator is never opened, even though the block temp sensor (up top) shows higher than normal temperature. Subie t'stats have a little bypass hole in the plate, and further a little plug loosely riveted in that hole. I don't know exactly how that modulates the coolant flow, but with a genuine OEM subit t'stat I have never seen the high temp at low RPMs when the outside air temps are below freezing. Hoever, with TWO different makes of aftermarket t'stat (neither of which had the little bypass hole and rivet thingie) I saw exactly the behavior that you are describing.

Thanks, vic! I didn't think to check the corporate website!!

Nipper's right - based on my experience. Do a good flush of the system and, as others have suggested, replace your T'stat with a Subaru OEM. You either have gunk in the radiator, or a T'stat that got a little too stressed when the HGs blew, or both. In my case, it was both!

Anybody know where I can get Nokian WRs locally here near Denver? After years of driving all-seasons that were less than good in snow, I'm looking to get a bit more "bite" into the white stuff that appears to be sticking around for the whole winter this year!

I don't think you need to drive it; just cycling through all the settings (R thru 1) a few times while keeping the engine turning faster than nominal idle (I step on the brake, then bring the engine RPM up to around 1500 while I do this) will adequately circulate fluid in the system. Now that I've discovered it can work, I personally like to use the tranny fluid pressure to "pump out" the old fluid by pulling the hoses off of the tranny cooler (at the radiator) and then running the car while a few quarts of fluid are forced out. A bit messy until you figure out which hose is the "outlet" side, but very effective! Oh, let me not forget to mention that I don't allow the unit to pump itself dry - just pump out a few quarts. THen I top off with new fluid and repeat the process a couple of times, until the stuff coming out looks new. Then, just to make sure I have all the "gunk" out, I pull the pan drain plug and do one more drain and fill.

Sorry, no. The coolant conditioner (stop leak) only works for the Phase II failures, which show up as a coolant leak around the outside of the heads (you'd see coolant leaking around the block). The Phase I failure causes hot exhaust gas to be forced into the coolant loop - higher temperature, higher pressure than the Phase II problem, and no amount of any kind of stop leak will help, I'm afraid.

I used to live in SoCal, and IMHO, there is only one place in the San Gabriel Valley that I would trust with my machine. That's SubySpecialties in Monrovia. I had the flexplate on my auto tranny (on a '96 Outback) replaced there - a few of the bolts that hold the flexplate in place had backed out, and my original plate flexed a bit more than it was designed to! I didn't have the equipment to drop the tranny myself when we were living in California so I took the advice of a fellow-Sube owner where I used to work and went there, instead of going to Sierra Subaru. I got a bad feeling from the bozo behind the service counter at Sierra, so an independent shop was the only way I felt comfortable going. I was very satisfied with SubySpecialties - they know what they are doing, and they do it very well! They have a website: http://www.subyspecialties.com/ I recommend them highly! BTW - Here in Colorado, where every other car on the road is a Sube - there are guys who actually can support themselves as independent Subaru mechanics!

Ahh, yours is still a baby at this point! My '96 OBW is going to turn over 230,000 miles sometime this week - guess by Commuter's standards, mine is merely a teenager!

I second that. How about bringin' it up here to Colorado, where I'll take you on... all you gotta do is get up my driveway faster than I can in my Outback. That assumes you can even get up the drive, that is!

Strange - I just went to the AMVIC website and the word you got from them seems to be in contradiction to what they indicate they'll do: "Q. I think the repairs done on my car were not necessary and/or unsatisfactory. What can I do? Talk to the manager and/or the business owner. If that fails, call us back and we will contact the business to see if we can help you resolve the matter." So it appears that either they exist more for the protection of the business than the consumer, or they think you haven't adequately tried to solve the problem with the business owner. What a scam - I'm surprised to see the Provincial government hand over responsibility for consumer protection to an organization comprised of representatives from the very businesses they are asked to watchdog. YUK! I would not have expected this from a Canadian Province. Again I say, Good Luck. Perhaps there is just a delay in responding to your complaint because of the holidays.

Hmmm -- I don't know what recourse you have in Canada, but in most states here in the US you could bring a variety of legal remedies to bear on them. Perhaps you can get in touch with AAMCO Canada, instead of only dealing with this single franchise shop. The corporate office might not take too kindly to the spectre of legal action that you might pursue. Nasty - to bring a perfectly functional vehicle in for service, only to have them effectively disable the vehicle - one could conclude that in the process of "learning," they found a way for you to pay for their lessons. I'd nail them using every legal recourse, not limited to informing any Business organizations (such as Better Business Bureau, if they exist in Canada), and perhaps taking it to a local media representative. There are investigative reporters on some TV station staffs here in the US who'd love to bring something like this to wider public scrutiny. Good Luck!

Of course you're right! But if you're also careful to avoid those crusted over drifts, you CAN blow thru 26 inches of fresh powder - I did it myself yesterday to get thru the bottom of the driveway!

OK, now! So, how many NASA or ex-NASA engineers own Subarus? How many are active on this board?? (I know of at least TWO now... :cool:)