matt167 Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) So, I'm kinda thinking.. I really want to do something to my Forester. It is a practical vehicle, in decent shape but does need some mechaincal attention. 4th gear is getting a little rough and the engine is starting to get a part throttle rattle all the time. Still got some life in it, but either way it's gonna need a new engine/ trans.. neither of which is expensive to just swap with good used but.... USDM never got any of the really cool stuff.. Forester Turbo existed before USDM got the XT, and USDM has never gotten the dual range in any car since the EA's. I know why, and it's a stupid reason but whatever.. I was planning on doing an NA-T conversion, to put down gobs of hp, and that would be really fun but in the practical end, it has no practical application to the Forester being that it's too top heavy to autoX, and really too utilitarian to utilize the turbo's potential, beyond passing someone on the highway. Then I was thinking, and watching the videos on the low range... Now, I do have a vintage 15' Custom Craft Sea Ray ( pretty rare boat, company defunct in '64, mines a '63 ) that was my grandfathers that I'm restoring... Forester should be rated to tow it. be like 1,800 lbs loaded.. Low range would be very useful when launching, especially the old Mastercraft trailer that sits the boat pretty high ( has to be pretty deep to launch it ).. I know JDM transmissions can be found with the dual range trans, but I've never seen the bezels and shifters available.. One of my pet peeves is that if something is there, it has to work like stock and look it too.. I've found the shifters, bezels and stuff on Ebay Aus but I don't know about getting stuff here except for a specific freight companies, and one friend on another forum who ships cars too and from the US for his own dealings... I know that several of those Dual range transmissions are on Ebay.au now, if only I had a way to import, and that's always the hangup. it's expensive from down under. Should I try to go D/R or just stick with Turbo? Edited March 28, 2016 by matt167 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwick Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 They got the dual range is South America apparently, and still offer it "Loyale 2.7 Turbo" has done some write ups about them. Here's a post where he commented: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/153425-dual-range-jdm-transmission/ He's a few posters down in that thread with the yellow and black avatar. Maybe shoot him a PM and see what he has to say about them. He's in Honduras which might be cheaper than Australia. As long as you have steep gearing (4.10's to 4.44's are considered steep; 3.90's are also steep) towing shouldn't be an issue with a standard 5 speed as long as it's not being raced or you are way beyond it's rating; go with STi trans then? If you plan to do a ton of towing, I'd strongly suggest swapping in a 6 cylinder as it won't be as stressed and will likely have an early powerband to aid in towing. If you are insistent on a turbo 4, run a smaller turbo that has full spool as early as possible (no giant mismatched Holsets or the like) and run a large race cat so it reduces turbo back pressure as much as possible. If you can get near full spool starting from 1500-1700 until 4k, you'll be golden. Consider running a lightweight flywheel and lower amperage alternator to increase throttle response and reduce parasitic drag. If nothing is on the market, contact a company that makes aftermarket pulley kits, and explain you'd like to under drive the alt and power steering slightly (you'll need to know the turn-on RPM of the alt if it's not get the on signal at low RPM) and figure out if the power steering pump can tolerate a 10-20% under drive speed or not. The benefit obviously would be a free up of early hp/tq and better throttle response. An alt by itself can rob 2-5 hp. An old drag racing trick was to run a toggle to the field on alt wire, and turn it off when running a 1/4 mile as the alt will spin with minimal resistance. When looking to get the best throttle response, it's smart to have every corner covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Personally I'd go with the dual range, I had a dream to take the dual range out of my rusty GL and put it in my forester, then someone who couldn't drive totalled the car... I launched and hauled a lot of boats with my GL, and despite the ea81 being a bit underpowered the dual range was amazing. It was great for light offroading and general messing around. Personally, I really don't care about my car being fast, I want to be able to drive more places. Fast cars get me in trouble.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwick Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Also, I recommend running air bags in the rear. If you are handy, you might be able to retrofit a stock Lincoln bag set up as there really isn't much to them. Weld a bracket in and make it adjustable, and you fine-tune ride height. Under load, the rear will never squat. Other option that was popular in the late 70's early 80's, was running air shocks. My friend had a 77' Lincoln in high school (big, heavy car) and it had air shocks. Those alone could raise the rear nearly 3-4" and gave it a strong rake, or they could be lowered to normal. It was apparently used to tow in it's previous life. Last thing you want is your rear bumper dragging on the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted March 28, 2016 Author Share Posted March 28, 2016 I've thought about air assist springs, but really. The tongue would only have 200 pounds on it. The car is rated for 900 lbs of cargo inc passangers IIRC, so it should be ok with just a fresh set of struts all around. I've yet to determin if it has or does not have the hill assist/ hill holder.. Friend who owns the WRX says it should have it but I don't know. I know her WRX has it but I never even give it a thought until she commented on how badly I start on a hill compared to her.. but with hill assist, she has a deffinite advantage.. I don't roll back, but the engine lugs a little and the pistons rattle cause the engine is getting worn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwick Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 If the car is stationary, it might have "200" pounds over it, but once moving, that 200 pounds (is that all the boat weighs?) is going to be constantly shifting, and down force at 55 mph + whatever the boat is doing, will be enough to squat your car badly. And if you have several occupants + gear in the cargo area, you'll greatly wish you'd done the rear suspension right. I think they make a bladder bag that sits inside a spring, that drag racers use to preload the right rear to limit the amount of uneven squatting under hard launches but making that spring firmer. No idea what they are called, but it'd probably work. Leave it deflated for daily driving, then push the compressor switch to firm it up. I know when I pulled 750 pound car dolly empty, it barely had 100 pounds on the tongue as most of the weight was over it's axle. My car had air ride and bags at all 4 corners. It'd spend 10-15 seconds filling up the rear just from the tongue weight added at idle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted March 28, 2016 Author Share Posted March 28, 2016 The boat weighs 1,800 lbs calculated on the trailer, but tongue weight for trailer towing should only be 10% of the total weight in bumper pull situations, so realistically it will have 180-200 lbs on the rear of the car. Almost 500 lbs of the boats weight is the 65hp Mercury outboard on the stern. The boat itself dry weighted at the factory is like 800 lbs, and the trailer isn't heavy either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 It'll be fine, the forester has pretty stiff springs from the factory, and the back wheels are fairly close to the back of the car. This is an extremely important point... The more overhang from the back wheels to the back of the car, the more load the same weight is going to put on the springs. I had a 2000 outback, which have way too soft springs from the factory. I was always bottoming the stupid thing out by loading the trunk full of rocks, fire wood, whatever else. I treated the forester the same way and barely mattered at all, those things are tanks. I wouldn't bother doing anything crazy with the rear suspension, if you want stiffer springs there's a ton of aftermakert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 maybe focus on trans if that's the one that clearly has the issues? it sounds like the engine is fine - a rattle is usually something benign like a heat shield. towing shouldn't be a big deal - as mentioned tongue weight should be kept at proper levels and know the actual weight you're pulling - boat, trailer, gear, gas, etc. i tow in excess of weight limits and haven't had suspension issues. at 200,000 miles i installed beefier turbo baja rear springs when installing new struts since that car is usually carrying loads - family or is the tow vehicle or both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subnz Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) A Forester by way of its design has off road capablitiy so its a no brainer what to do. ie Dual ratio it. There are companies here that import 2nd hand Subaru parts / components ex japan (surely there must be someone in the US doing this as well.) and also we're lucky that NZDM similar to Australia are built in Japan so we still got the Dual ratio . Japanparts.com Edited March 29, 2016 by subnz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirelessenabled Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 These guys http://www.foreignengines.com/ had some dual range EJ transmissions last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt167 Posted March 29, 2016 Author Share Posted March 29, 2016 The engine clearly isn't a heat shield. Its definitely pistons slapping. Wouldn't supprise me if its got a broken piston skirt. The exhaust is tight and dead quiet.. The trans is probably ok, but it might not be. Its making some noise in 3rd winding it up, and sometimes it grinds just a little going into 4th... Ralisticly both need replaced, but I can use a cheap trans if I go turbo, or a cheap engine if I go DR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwick Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 You'll just have to see if it squats and go from there. If you have family, gear, hitch, then boat, you want rear stable at all times so as to not negatively affect braking. Turbo + ECM to handle boost, timing + fuel pump and probably injectors + all the hardware + intake and exhaust will be a fair amount of work, but once in, you'll have options on fine-tuning boost, etc. Buying a $500 SVX, or searching high and low for a deal on an EZxx engine would give roughly the same amount of early torque needed for towing and might actually be easier and cheaper to do. Either way, it'll help to have a donor vehicle if sticking to stock power levels. If you want to go super cheap and have power to spare, stick a small block Ford 302 in it and run a used Tremec and carb the engine Would only need a handful of wires going to the engine and you could have 240 hp from a basically stock engine that would put the car into the low 14's on weekend grocery store runs. Drop $1300 on a set of AFR 165 heads and run good shorty headers, and you'll be around 400 hp and probably high 11's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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