jamesm113 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 (edited) My Outback has caused me lots of headaches lately. It's been overheating going uphill and leaking oil from the passenger side head gasket, so I decided to do a head gasket job, and replace the water pump with an OEM while I was in there. That turned into a giant mess, with a cracked cylinder head, pitted exhaust valves, and bad piston oil rings. GD and others on this board had some great advice for me, so I'm hoping to hit the well one more time After finishing the head gasket/valve/new cylinder head job, it's still overheating. At least a number of things were ruled out (cracked head, pitted exhaust valves, head gasket, water pump). I suspect there's a clogged radiator so I ordered a denso replacement. But one other issue I have spotted is that the radiator fans stay off until 212F. At 212F, they kick onto the low speed. Then, at 217F, they kick onto high speed at 217F. Both are waaaay too late, in my humble opinion. The temperature gauge is above normal at 213F. If the temp is 212F, and the fans are on low speed, I can flip the A/C switch, and they kick on to high speed. So I don't think it's a fuse/relay issue. I think the signal itself is wrong. Perhaps there's a TSB or a reflash needed? Plain OM on the Subaru Outback forum had a good thread observing this behavior and a hypothesis to explaining this behavior, but not any solution... Edited January 6, 2018 by jamesm113 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golucky66 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 In my personal experience. On an 09 outback and an 09 forester. Right after I did a HG job. The fans don't come on until 212/214 degrees. Then they're on high until the temp reaches 204 or so. I can't explain the issue with them not coming on until 217. But thats my personal experience. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Sometime in the mid 2000s the fan On temp was raised to 212. Dodge/jeep stuff of that era, fans turn on around 220-225. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 (edited) Yeah it's not too much of a concern really. My Trans Am originally had the fan set points set to 222 and then didn't kick on the secondary fan till 243. Higher temps result in more complete combustion and fewer hydrocarbon emissions. One of the MANY reasons these engines have always needed synthetic. Amsoil synthetics can handle sustained 350 degrees with no damage. Definitely do run a 5w40 though. Viscosity decreases with temp. I run nothing but 5w40, 10w40, 20w50, or 15w50 depending on stock, modified, season, etc. GD Edited January 6, 2018 by GeneralDisorder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesm113 Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 Ok, if 212F to 217F isn't a huge concern in terms of temperature... What temperature ranges are cause for concern? And what temperature means "pull-over immediately"? I only hit 228F (about 3/4 of the way up the temp gauge, near the gap in the white line), and sustained all that damage (rings, valves, cracked driver head, warped heads). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Was the engine low on coolant? If it's low on coolant the temp sensor can't read anything. Coolant can be 260°+ and if it doesn't cover the sensor the sensor won't show there's anything wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) Exactly. The reading when the head gaskets were blown is meaningless. Be concerned if it gets to 240 or above (without blown head gaskets and full on coolant). @ 16 psi system pressure, 50/50 mixture will not boil till 267* F GD Edited January 8, 2018 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesm113 Posted January 8, 2018 Author Share Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) So, I've only owned the car for ~8k (purchased at 145K, 153K now). I replaced the thermostat and rad cap as a troubleshooting step at 146K, the coolant was green and appeared to be in good/clean condition. During my period of ownership, the coolant was never low. There was always coolant up to the radiator neck, and the coolant level was always above the L mark in the coolant reservoir. The only symptoms of a bad HG was an external oil leak on the passenger side, above the oil filter. It's my understanding that this type of external oil leak is very common with the 05-09 SOHC EJ253's. The car never had bubbles in the coolant reservoir, never had oil in the coolant, coolant in the oil. It also passed a block test. There were never spikes of high temperatures. It would take a long, sustained hill (or towing up a slight grade) to get the temp to rise. Around town or unloaded highway driving would never cause an issue. Upon tear down, my untrained eye did not spot any paths between the water jacket and the combustion chamber. EDIT Add missing photos. Edited January 8, 2018 by jamesm113 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) Then most likely the damage was from a prior head gasket failure before your ownership. These can suffer quite a bit of damage and still run seemingly ok. GD Edited January 8, 2018 by GeneralDisorder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 I've seen that gasket on a few of these engines. Those are some kind of aftermarket crap. Dunno what brand they are but they are absolute.... They literally fall apart in less than a year. Agreed with GD. The damage done was possibly due to previous overheating. The problems you were chasing were due to the crap head gaskets that were put on it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesm113 Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) Wow. Up until now, I thought I was doing the first HG job on this car. They were single layer HG's, so I just assumed they were the originals. The PO owner had told me that the HG gaskets were never replaced. I don't have any service records indicating there was a HG replacement. The biggest repair I have on record is, the radiator was compromised and cross contaminated ATF and coolant. Both the rad and the transmission were replaced then (2010 and 75k). I'm impressed... For the life of me, I can't tell the difference between mine and the OEM single layer 11044AA633 gaskets. For the sake of completeness, I'm adding the remaining photos (the photo uploader was giving me trouble last night). EDIT: More photo uploader trouble.. Edited January 9, 2018 by jamesm113 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Could have been related to the coolant/ATF mixing issue and radiator replacement. Maybe they were original but it had still been overheated causing the damage but not a fire ring breach. GD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike104 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 What Head Gasket did you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesm113 Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 I put in the OEM turbo MLS head gaskets - 11044AA642. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesm113 Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 I took another look at the old gaskets. There's some sort of number near the top/oval oil passageway. It appears it was put in the coating, and not stamped in the metal. It's faint, but 5414-11 or 5114-11 are possibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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