Forester_Ranger Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 hi guysjust smething to think about: i have a forester. viscose central diff and front and rear open diffs. i have recently installed a "phantomgrip", which is a limited slip kit, in my rear diff. i have installed it in spite of warnings about bad opinions (in a subaru forum in australia). it works great and i take "pinhead corners" much faster and quitely. this is a simple device that based on friction and works all the time, compering to other lsd that operate from a certain speed. the idea is to get help on and off-road. of course it isn't a full lock, but on the other hand it can be used on asphalt, and much better than without it. the next stage is to install one in the front diff, so, when i'll have two wheels in the air (diagonally), i'll still have the other two to pull me out (not such as a full lock, but much better then without it). just another way to improve the grip without risking mechanical parts. Pinister, How many Miles have you run on your Phantom Grip. I've heard bad things about Phantom grip as well. I had to seriously consider if I wanted to try it. But I don't know of anything else that would work without going as extreme as welding axles. Mudrat will be putting a ea82 dual-range with a phantom grip for my front diff. In My Forester this Weekend. We are also going to put in a Suburu 3:90 rear end LSD. I just hope I get some good miles out of the Phantom Grip before it destroys my front diff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinister Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 hi ranger my phantomgrip is new. it's been working for about 2000 miles on asphalt (and very good), and yesterday it was off-road for the first time. when i climbed a hill (not a hard one) it seemed to be 100% smoothly and quitely, when before, as i can compere, wheels lost grip from time to time and threw dirt and stones. i would prefer a 100% lock, but since i couldn't find any for the forester, and i wouldn't never weld diffs i found that compromise (in both axles) good enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subie94 Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 IAs long as you make sure not to take very tight turns(read; steering wheel lock to lock) and do not get on the throttle while turning all should be fine. QUOTE] how come honest,silly question i guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenTBK Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 how come honest,silly question i guess Because when you're welded, there is no differential action. The outer tyre in the turn turns more/faster than the inner tyre. With a welded rear, that isnt the case, as both rear tyres are locked together. Tight turns could easily twist off an axle stub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 Yep! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushbasher Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 but if you take a sharp turn hard or suddenly at higher speed, you can get the weight to shift off the inside wheel allowing it to break loose instead of twisting stuff off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subie94 Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 Because when you're welded, there is no differential action. The outer tyre in the turn turns more/faster than the inner tyre. With a welded rear, that isnt the case, as both rear tyres are locked together. Tight turns could easily twist off an axle stub. ouch...yup i guess that would be a bad thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinister Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 hi guys i don't think that the "phantomgrip" will damage the diff. not as long as it's in one peace. i also don't think that with the "phantomgrip", the diff will work harder. with open diff every wheel can turn differently and the diff mechanism follows both axles and devides the speed between them. with welded diff the mechanism will still "follow" the axles, but they will always move in the same speed. the diff's mechanism won't suffer more than before. all of the extreme forces will "travel" between the two wheels. since there isn't actually a diff, those extra forces will damage the tyres and the joint of the axles. that will happen permanently on asphalt. being off-road, when one wheel will be in the air, the other one will get all the power, and the axle, with it's joint, will work double as planed. i thing that this is bad for the car on asphalt, and helps but still causes damage off-road. i think that stronger axles can minimize the damage. with "phantomgrip" the breaking point will come much earlier. on asphalt, in a certain point the limited friction won't be able to hold the axles in one piece, and they'll start turning differently. the diff mechanism won't work harder because the extra forces will be handled by the friction mechanism in the "phantomgrip". off-road, when one wheel is in the air, the other one gets only the part of the power that the friction mechanism was planned to give. the axle won't get more forces than it's planned to get, but on the other hand the power won't be all wasted on the wheel which is in the air. as i said, LSD is a compromise. not too extreme and not too much risk. i think that in those situations off-road, "phantomgrip" is better than a viscose LSD, because it catches all the time and doesn't need a certain difference to start working. and, in my opinion, if the "phantomgrip" will stop functioning, the diff will work as open diff, and lets hope that it will work at least 120,000 miles, as written in their site. it's seems that the only risk is when the "phantomgrip" falls apart... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tundrawolf Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 So it will still squeal if it is in 2 wheel drive and the differential is not engaged? That's a bummer... My BRAT has a mechaincal E brake for the frotn rotos, I was thinking of using a dual-lever system for the E brake, to lock the spinning wheel, even if I have to get out and see which wheel is spinning. I was also thinking about a magnetic hall effect sensor around each driveshaft, with a LED meter on each one, telling me the speed, so I know which lever to pull. Liek a cave man LSD but still functional in offroading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 So it will still squeal if it is in 2 wheel drive and the differential is not engaged? That's a bummer... My BRAT has a mechaincal E brake for the frotn rotos, I was thinking of using a dual-lever system for the E brake, to lock the spinning wheel, even if I have to get out and see which wheel is spinning. I was also thinking about a magnetic hall effect sensor around each driveshaft, with a LED meter on each one, telling me the speed, so I know which lever to pull. Liek a cave man LSD but still functional in offroading. Dual E-brake works quite well for the fronts. You have to have the cables set really tight though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegablade Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 "Holy Thread Revival Batman!" But yeah your diff will still bind up while not in 4 wheel drive, its still there just no power being sent to it. I have had mine welded for almost a year now and i still run 13's but i have beat it to death and never broken an axle, even turning really sharp on dry pavement. The inside tire will churp a lot and it will get sluggish but just put er in first and rev it up a little. Its amazing how much more traction you get with it though, its like night and day, i will never go back to open diff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamCF Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Been running mine for quite awhile as well. Never removed an axle for the street (but it's does not see much pavement, only for transit to the trails). Kinda rough at times but once on the highway it's not noticable. You just have to get a feel for it in the snow. It'll go from understeer to oversteer quick, and can be squrrily on an icy highway. But you'll learn it's tendencies and adjust driving style accordingly. Been wanting to do the dual brake handle mod myself. Just been too lazy to hit the JY and pull some donor parts. Yeah old thread but some folks may find the info in it useful. Good job on searching out the info, lots of old threads fill with great stuff buried around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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