6 cyl BRat

[Tbird Man]

heh, the remote turbo HAS been done, and it DOSE work, cheak the link I posted, that was my point. people were saying that remote turbos won't work, and I was saying that not only SHOULD they work, they DO work. Didn't mean to hijack or flame.

[subyrally]

(slight hijack)hey tbird man, your in boone, does the theme park tweetsie railroad still exist?

 

i used to go there as a child.

 

 

 

and yes, remote turbos will work, thyere is no reason that they wont, unless you dont use the right turbo for the application.

[subarubrat]

As MorganM said:

"Very few ppl have stuffed an ER27 into an EA81 platform; of which is a major acomplishment itself. Once you are one of those very few individuals then you are on the road to having a turbo ER27 in an EA81 platform. Debating simentacs on the USMB won't get anyone there."

 

Let me put in my 2 phennigs. I have an ER27 in a BRAT, 6k miles on it and putting out about 250Hp NA. I have built an EG33 twin turbo powered XT6 and put over 60k miles on it daily driving, over 180Mph on the Autobahn, and skunked Carreras at will. My daily driver is an STI with over 500Hp at the crank, point is, been there, done that, and my current project is a subie powered Lambo that will top out at over 200Mph, so you can either take or reject what I have to say on the topic.

 

There is so much misinformation in this thread that I can't go through and debunk it all. I would suggest reading Maximum Boost by Corky Bell, it isn't very up to date on engine management technology but the basic facts and figures of how turbos work and the impacts of turbo charging an engine that was not designed for it. As for how compressors work, axial/radial etc. none is better than Bob Kress's work.

 

I don't disagree with bench designing/building done in the theoretical, bouncing ideas off each other, and sharing plans because that is what the whole idea of this board is. When it extends into absolutes, rants based on bogus information and claims based on conjecture being taken as fact over actual experince, things are going wrong. The ER27 will fit into the BRAT and it is a damn tight fit, in a lifted BRAT with the lift frame designed around it it is still tight. A turbo could well be fitted, this is true, there are oil and coolant taps available, the exhaust path is possible, as is the intake and intercooler paths. I made mockups of a up pipe and down pipe after swaping in the ER27 while I was still considering NA or forced induction. It will fit. The ER27 however is NOT a good candidate for forced induction on stock internals. The pistons are completely wrong for forced induction, the rods are weak, and the block is not very rhobust in terms of coolant passages and wall thickness. I run a massive aluminum radiator made for a big-block on my high compression NA build. Some engines are fanstastic for boost such as the EJ25, and some aren't. With proper pistons, and sufficiant cooling capacity it would be OK for low boost and perform well but you would still be limited to about 250Hp either way. The ER27 is a very impractical engine for performance use given the available engines in the Subaru line that will fit. It is also far heavier and needs a front suspension designed for it. I run 380Lb coil overs on the front of my BRAT. So why did I choose that engine? The sound, visual impact and low end tourqe, but mostly the sound and visual impact, I never said that practicality should be the deciding factor.... But just be aware it is not the ideal choice, again that said, it might not be the best way but it is fun to do. A single turbo or the even more impractical twin turbo, is NOT that difficult and is certainly no more difficult than rebuilding an EA82T. It has been said a few times that we will never see one, I wouldn't be surprised if we never do either. But that doesn't mean that it is out of reach or even difficult.

 

And as MorganM also said:

"Now turboing or twin turboing that engine is a nother huge task. Then we get into the issue of a drive train that can actually put that power to the wheels and withstand the abuse."

 

On the subject of twin turbos.... Sequential or parallel, staged or linear, it is more than just a cool sounding term, there are good reasons for and against them and good reasons to choose one type over another. You won't necessarily make more power, but a more effective power band. In the ER27's case a single turbo is by far the better choice.

 

The BRAT power train is Ok for the stock power of an ER27, running relatively stock tires, but much over that in either catagory and you will need to update those components. I ran a modified EA81 4MT and nuked it being rough on it, then nuked a second on a simple highway cruise, so out it went and in went EJ tranny. With a turbo ER27 you would want to do the same.

 

Also, I don't like the shooting down of other people's projects in planning, execution or even after completion. I had people tell me that I would never lift a BRAT 12 inches, and even today, I have people tell me it isn't possible, even when the thing is parked outside the very place the discussion is taking place in. People too often get comfortable with what has been done and what hasn't been done that they can't imagine something different. I have also had people tell me that the 200Mph plus Subie powered Lambo is not possible. Never mind that the facotry one has been proven to touch 200, on less power. Here I have more power and less weight in the same aero package, it must be that Lambo Mojo unit installed in the trunk that lets it do that. I do get that often, like yesterday we were debating at work and somehow a subie engine at 300Hp is less than a Mustang V8 at 300Hp according to a few folks.

[subyrally]

subarubrat,

 

you gotta come up to frederick sometime, im planning a suby meet here, im thinking there are a lot of things i could learn from talking to you.

 

as for the idea of twin turbos, if you want to do it, do your homework before you ever even touch a screwdriver.

[subarubrat]

Frederick isn't that far at all, when is the meet? If I am off I will come, I work 4 on adn 4 off so some weekends are free, some aren't.

[Tbird Man]

(slight hijack)hey tbird man, your in boone, does the theme park tweetsie railroad still exist?

 

i used to go there as a child.

 

 

 

and yes, remote turbos will work, thyere is no reason that they wont, unless you dont use the right turbo for the application.

 

Yeah tweetsie is still here, And good post Subarubrat. Have you seen the Crawford Performance 719whp STI? 10.7sec 1/4 @133, that would go 200mph in the Lambaru.

[MorganM]

There is so much misinformation in this thread that I can't go through and debunk it all.

 

That's exactly why these threads get on peoples nerves. I'm all for new ideas and crazy projects. However lets try to keep it real.

 

Thanks for your input subarubrat.

[Tbird Man]

well, gues I'll just have to drum up the money to do an EZ30r with remote turbo in my 'prezza.

[Tbird Man]

Holy shezzy, scroll about 2/3 down this page, eg33 in a BRAT.

 

http://bbs.22b.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000405#000018

[Tbird Man]

They claim they only had to move the rad 4in, and the EZ30 is ~5in shorter.

[Gravityman]

I know this is coming a bit late in the thread but....

 

 

It is 100% possible to put a remote turbo on a car. The two biggest things (problems) that you will run into is massive amounts of plumbing and a lot of turbo lag. The reason that truck with the remote turbo did so well is because of the amount of exhaust gas that it could expel in a short time. 8 or 10 cyls put out alot of exhaust producing massive back pressure very fast giving it very little lag. I would also imagine that a remote turbo is only one mod that the truck had, probably had nitrous and propane injection yada yada yada, the list for diesal mod go on an on.

 

Tell you the truth I want you to build an impreza EZ30r with remote turbo. It would be an awsome project, and a lot of fun, but I would only do it if you want to be the first to do a remote on a ROO. Other then that it would be better just going with a turbo mounted closer to the engine to keep plumbing down, better spool times with less pressure loss.

 

Good luck T man!

[LPGsuperchargedBrumby]

umm all this talk of mega power is good but someone seems to have missed the fact that with mega power comes the need for mega brakes....like the guru said "its not spped that kills....its the sudden stop when it all go's messed up"

 

putting a ez30r up the front would necessitate uprating the brakes (at least if i was building it it would anyway)

[TurboSPFI]

yeah but then you need more power because you just hit the brakes! DOH! vicious cycle aint it

[LPGsuperchargedBrumby]

yeah but then you need more power because you just hit the brakes! DOH! vicious cycle aint it

 

3 liters of subaru goodness = more power.......its already there

[Tbird Man]

1. that truck is not a deisel and they list the mods as headers, cam, and Methanol kit.

 

2. Yeah, of course the brakes, suspension, and safty need to be upgraded. I don't think I'll have the money to do this for some time, but we'll see, you never know.

 

3.??????

 

4.PROFIT!!

[Gravityman]

I agree the brakes, suspension and all the safety stuff needs upgraded obviously. The thing is the brat is already a light weight vehicle, I would imagine that all that would need to be done is when the 5 lug swap is done which hopefully is when you go the the bigger engine, just swap xt6 brake calipers and rotors into the brat and that should be fine.

[baccaruda]

I had people tell me that I would never lift a BRAT 12 inches, and even today, I have people tell me it isn't possible, even when the thing is parked outside the very place the discussion is taking place in. People too often get comfortable with what has been done and what hasn't been done that they can't imagine something different. I have also had people tell me that the 200Mph plus Subie powered Lambo is not possible. Never mind that the facotry one has been proven to touch 200, on less power. Here I have more power and less weight in the same aero package, it must be that Lambo Mojo unit installed in the trunk that lets it do that. I do get that often, like yesterday we were debating at work and somehow a subie engine at 300Hp is less than a Mustang V8 at 300Hp according to a few folks.

 

That's because the Subaru horsepower is metric.