subpennyman Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Emissions Idle failure! What to change or do? have 5 engine codes 11,13,23,34,35-engine also has slight hiccup in idle, intermittently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLCraig Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 It would help to know things like, year, model, engine, fuel system, and if it's normaly asperated or forced induction. Also it would help to know what the test readings were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 It appears you have a 93 Loyale going from your previus posts. Here is a list of codes. You may want to disconnect the battery for a while to see if the codes reappear. 88 and later models with Single-Point Fuel Injection 11Crank angle sensor or circuit 12Starter switch or circuit 13Crank angle sensor or circuit 14Fuel injector - abnormal output 21Coolant temperature or circuit 23Air flow meter or circuit 24Air control valve or circuit 31Throttle sensor or circuit 32Oxygen sensor or circuit 33Vehicle Speed Sensor or circuit 34EGR solenoid or circuit 35Purge control solenoid or circuit 42Idle switch or circuit 45Kick-down control relay or circuit 51Neutral switch continuously in the on position 55EGR temperature sensor or circuit 61Parking switch or circuit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subpennyman Posted September 5, 2005 Author Share Posted September 5, 2005 It would help to know things like, year, model, engine, fuel system, and if it's normaly asperated or forced induction. Also it would help to know what the test readings were. 1993 Loyale 4 door wagon Fuel Injection. It has a MAP Airflow sensor and the Only Tests that it failed was the IDLE Test for both CO2 and HC No numbers were given- Just the words FAILED- it passed all other tests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subpennyman Posted September 5, 2005 Author Share Posted September 5, 2005 It appears you have a 93 Loyale going from your previus posts. Here is a list of codes. You may want to disconnect the battery for a while to see if the codes reappear. 88 and later models with Single-Point Fuel Injection 11Crank angle sensor or circuit 12Starter switch or circuit 13Crank angle sensor or circuit 14Fuel injector - abnormal output 21Coolant temperature or circuit 23Air flow meter or circuit 24Air control valve or circuit 31Throttle sensor or circuit 32Oxygen sensor or circuit 33Vehicle Speed Sensor or circuit 34EGR solenoid or circuit 35Purge control solenoid or circuit 42Idle switch or circuit 45Kick-down control relay or circuit 51Neutral switch continuously in the on position 55EGR temperature sensor or circuit 61Parking switch or circuit I have the interpretation schedule for all the codes except 34- which I now have! But which one of these are the most likely to be the cause of my Idle Fail and what is the best way to troubleshoot it? Also please remember that when the car is at idle, every now and then, there is a slight miss in the firing( it could be no fuel to 1 cylinder-but I don't think so-happens to fast/and too short in duration). Or is just flat out replacement the safest option. When I connect up the 2 green wires under the hood, the engine will not stay running. I had the 2 whites connected when I read the fail codes. I'll disconnect the Battery in the am (Pacific Time) and then take another set of readings. Thanks for everyones help- I appreciate it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subpennyman Posted September 5, 2005 Author Share Posted September 5, 2005 Cleared codes by disconnecting battery for 10-20 minutes. Only code now showing is 23. Need to warm engine up and take it for a drive- more infor later tongiht! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royboy159 Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Hey Sub----Good to hear from you. Where we left off on this car was my suspicion of a failing ECU causing lots of codes and an inability to run in test mode. But at this point, if the plugs and wires are good, I'd also consider corrosion in the sensor/actuator/ECU system. Try cleaning the connector to the MAF to see if that code doesn't reset after battery disconnect for 2 minutes. Without test mode codes, it'll take someone with more knowledge than I to zero in on an exact cause for the emission failure. roy:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Air flow error; when's the last time you changed the air filter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Along with Ed's suggestion, make sure the connections are good on the MAF. It would also be good to check the voltage on the connections to see if the sensor is bad or the wiring to it. I assume you have already checked your plugs and wires to see how things are. If not I would suggest doing that to see if something is not right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subpennyman Posted September 5, 2005 Author Share Posted September 5, 2005 Hi Royboy159-I left a message on your answer machine Sun eve. Car was tuned up in Dec 04- I am pretty sure I changed out the Airfilter-will double check tonigh when the wife returns home with the car(unless she gets in late like 11pm-ish). I will also pull the connector on the MAF Sensor and the sensor itself and take a closer look-see! But I dont know which pins should have voltage- though I suppose if I find one with power with respect to (WRT)chassis ground, I should be able to determine which is the Ground wire/pin and take a good voltage measurement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 If you have a 5 pin connector to the MAF then pin 1 may be supply power and pin 4 ground. You should be able to ohm out the ground easily enough if that isn't correct. I like to take voltage readings of all the pins, using a known good ground point to reference to, while the system is running. You can usually tell what is what that way fairly quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subpennyman Posted September 5, 2005 Author Share Posted September 5, 2005 If you have a 5 pin connector to the MAF then pin 1 may be supply power and pin 4 ground. You should be able to ohm out the ground easily enough if that isn't correct. I like to take voltage readings of all the pins, using a known good ground point to reference to, while the system is running. You can usually tell what is what that way fairly quickly. So you would take the backshell of the connector and do in-incircuit voltage measurements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Yes, if you can do that. A live test tells you what is really happening. You can also pierce the insulation of the wire with a pin to get a reading but I hate to do that. I would seal the hole with something like silicone if you do it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subpennyman Posted September 7, 2005 Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 New Computer codes after 50 mile drive 23,34,35. Codes read with engine off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 I would see if voltage is getting to the solenoids and check the resistance of the coils to see if they are open. Be careful not break the small plastic pieces. They are very expensive to buy new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subpennyman Posted September 7, 2005 Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 I would see if voltage is getting to the solenoids and check the resistance of the coils to see if they are open. Be careful not break the small plastic pieces. They are very expensive to buy new. Thanks- The earliest I could get to it is Wednesday evening - And then finding the darn things! MAF is no problem-thats on the Air inlet channel that runs over to the Air Horn on top of the throttle body. But the rest? Hmmmm........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Here is a picture of what they look like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royboy159 Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 New Computer codes after 50 mile drive 23,34,35. Codes read with engine off. Hey Sub----Seems to indicate a corrosion problem but there may be a component failure also. I'd clean the three connectors of the ECU, the two large cylindrical connectors located behind the battery, and the MAF as previously suggested. Disconnect battery to clear the codes then give vehicle a two minute run from cold, shut off and recheck stored codes. roy:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subpennyman Posted September 14, 2005 Author Share Posted September 14, 2005 I have an OBD II Tester(is the information to be gleaned from an OBD II any more substantial than the idiot light on the computer under the dash?) - Where is the On Board Connector located on my car? I need the exact coordinates! I am blind as a bat! Also found lots of Atmospheric Gunk on the leading edges of my MAF Sensor! Really ugly under a 30 x Microscope! Cleaned with small brushes and fine poker-didn't damage the wire wraps-looks like new, reinstalled. Battery discoonected to clear codes. 2 minutes didn't do it! Also noticed code 11 (crank Angle Sensor or circuit)is back! Uh oh! Is the Purge canister the round can at the right front of the engine compartment with 3 black hoses running to it? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subpennyman Posted September 14, 2005 Author Share Posted September 14, 2005 Ugh! Cleaning the MAF didn't help. After codes cleared, with 2 white wires connected under the hood, started car and immediately code 23 (MAF Sensor or circuit) started flashing. About 90 secs later code 35 (purge cannister) came up! Didn't take it for a drive-going to bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 I have an OBD II Tester(is the information to be gleaned from an OBD II any more substantial than the idiot light on the computer under the dash?) - Where is the On Board Connector located on my car? I need the exact coordinates! I am blind as a bat! Also found lots of Atmospheric Gunk on the leading edges of my MAF Sensor! Really ugly under a 30 x Microscope! Cleaned with small brushes and fine poker-didn't damage the wire wraps-looks like new, reinstalled. Battery discoonected to clear codes. 2 minutes didn't do it! Also noticed code 11 (crank Angle Sensor or circuit)is back! Uh oh! Is the Purge canister the round can at the right front of the engine compartment with 3 black hoses running to it? Thanks. OBD II is a standard that appeared in '96 and newer cars. There is no connector for your car. You should check the connection also for CAS to see if that is a problem. The the canister you describe is the purge canister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subpennyman Posted September 14, 2005 Author Share Posted September 14, 2005 OBD II is a standard that appeared in '96 and newer cars. There is no connector for your car. You should check the connection also for CAS to see if that is a problem. The the canister you describe is the purge canister. CAS stands for ? Located ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royboy159 Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Ugh! Cleaning the MAF didn't help. After codes cleared, with 2 white wires connected under the hood, started car and immediately code 23 (MAF Sensor or circuit) started flashing. About 90 secs later code 35 (purge cannister) came up! Didn't take it for a drive-going to bed. Hey Sub----With all the connectors cleaned up and presuming the ECU isn't failing then I'd say you have component failure. I'd live test the MAF as Glen suggested or change it for a known working unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subpennyman Posted September 15, 2005 Author Share Posted September 15, 2005 No voltage on any of the 3 pins and wires going to the MAF (Motor running) Connector unplugged when measurements taken. Only 2 of the 3 pins had continuity 4K ohms. Time to get a MAF Sensor. Anyone know what the voltage should be on the wires? Do the wires come straight from the computer, or do they come from somewhere else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 I wouldn't get a new sensor until you have made sure the wiring to it is ok first. I think the wiring from the MAF goes directly to the ECU but I'm not sure. Spend the parts money on a good service manual for the car. This will save you more money and time in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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