me46han Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 HI, First time post here. I am hoping someone here can help me get my sube back on the road. I have a 1988 GL wagon 1.8L Yesterday, while driving it sputtered a few times then died. No previous symptoms/warning signs. Would not start again..towed it home. It won't start, it will crank but not start, ocassionally while cranking the tach will go nuts. I looked up the ECU codes, (thanks to your wonderful message board here.) and found the code '11' on my sube. (one long pulse and one short.) According to the master code list this means Crank angle sensor.. according to the local dealership/parts counter - my car does not have a crank angle sensor.. ??? Where to go next? Today I, have switched out batteries, changed out the coil - no difference.(Alt is only a couple months old but a rebuild) New cap and rotor put on about 3 months ago. Any suggestions? Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Code 11 can also refer to a missing ingition pulse from the distributor pickup in non-CAS engines. If you pulled this code without the engine running, don't worry about it, its normal. If it shows up with the engine running you have a problem. Try cranking the car with the coil lead datached from the distributor and near the body/engine. see if it sparks. If nit doesn't, then it could be wiring between coil/dist. or maybe the pickup in the dist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Is it SPFI? If so, it does too have a crank angle sensor of some sort, inside the distributor. My '87 GL does at least. If the distributor harness is messed up in any way (loose, miswired, full of dirt) it will give this code, and usually a 13 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 There should be a crank angle sensor in the bottom of the distributor. It tells the ECU where the position of the crank is. If this sensor isn't working then you will get a code like you have. Be sure fuse #5 is ok. If the horn works then it should be fine. If you have a test light available you can place the probe on the minus side of the coil and see if the light flashes while cranking the engine. If you see pulses then the plugs should be firing. If the light just stays lit then the sensor may need to be replaced or the ignitor is bad. Some people have had alternator problems that will cause the tach to jump like yours is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me46han Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 Is it SPFI? If so, it does too have a crank angle sensor of some sort, inside the distributor. My '87 GL does at least. If the distributor harness is messed up in any way (loose, miswired, full of dirt) it will give this code, and usually a 13 as well. IT is SPFI - I will go and look for myself then for the sensor.. I didnt even know where to look. will also check the dist harness.. thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me46han Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 Code 11 can also refer to a missing ingition pulse from the distributor pickup in non-CAS engines. If you pulled this code without the engine running, don't worry about it, its normal. If it shows up with the engine running you have a problem. Try cranking the car with the coil lead datached from the distributor and near the body/engine. see if it sparks. If nit doesn't, then it could be wiring between coil/dist. or maybe the pickup in the dist. tried the cranking thing.. with the lead detached, think we did it backwards though (detached from the coil) oops .. got nothing in the way of spark. will check the wiring between the coil and distributor and to do the spark test correctly.. thanks for the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radeon Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Its not the cam belts is it. I had a mate who had a similar problem and the cam belt had broken. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 IT is SPFI - I will go and look for myself then for the sensor.. I didnt even know where to look. will also check the dist harness.. thanks! Yeah. If you take the cap and rotor off, then unscrew the two or three screws that hold down the metal plate in the distributor below that, you'll see a little wheel with spokes on it that is the crank angle sensor -- or at least the rotating part of it. The sensor looks at the patterns of the spokes on that plate as they go by. Have you checked to see if the rotor is turning? if it's not, it could certainly be a timing belt stripped or broken. Zeke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me46han Posted November 2, 2005 Author Share Posted November 2, 2005 Yeah. If you take the cap and rotor off, then unscrew the two or three screws that hold down the metal plate in the distributor below that, you'll see a little wheel with spokes on it that is the crank angle sensor -- or at least the rotating part of it. The sensor looks at the patterns of the spokes on that plate as they go by. Have you checked to see if the rotor is turning? if it's not, it could certainly be a timing belt stripped or broken. Zeke so I took apart the cap/rotor took off the metal plate and this is what i see.. a metal disk that spins round.. and on one side is a little black box that hovers over the disk.. so.. are both the disk and the black box the crank angle sensor? thanks.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 so.. are both the disk and the black box the crank angle sensor? thanks.. yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iluvdrt Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I am currently battleing this same problem. If I get it figured it out, I will let you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me46han Posted November 2, 2005 Author Share Posted November 2, 2005 Mystery solved I think.. checked w cap off.. and rotor is not turning, so pulled timing belt cover off..right side timing belt stripped clean..not moving at all.. will be replacing. hopefully valves arent damaged now. Thank you all for your advice and help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 The device you saw over the slotted disk is a photo optical sensor. As the slots pass through the light transmitter the receiver sees the light pules and they are counted. There is a set of reference slots that are larger than the smaller ones. The ECU keeps track of the sequence and fire the plugs at the appropriate times. Edit: I posted at the same time you made your last post. The valves should be ok. This is a non-interference engine. To Iluvdrt: See my post #4 in this same thread on how to check thinks if you need some help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iluvdrt Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 To Iluvdrt: See my post #4 in this same thread on how to check thinks if you need some help. I have changed it about a month ago out of a running car. I am way beyond that in my quest for an answer. Thanks though. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=45931 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me46han Posted November 2, 2005 Author Share Posted November 2, 2005 The device you saw over the slotted disk is a photo optical sensor. As the slots pass through the light transmitter the receiver sees the light pules and they are counted. There is a set of reference slots that are larger than the smaller ones. The ECU keeps track of the sequence and fire the plugs at the appropriate times. Edit: I posted at the same time you made your last post. The valves should be ok. This is a non-interference engine. To Iluvdrt: See my post #4 in this same thread on how to check thinks if you need some help. Good to know. (about the non interference engine) Thanks again for your help! Thanks for the info on the sensor too.. if it ever DOES go i know that I have one now - contrary to what the dealership said, and what it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Your welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me46han Posted November 7, 2005 Author Share Posted November 7, 2005 Update: Got new timing belts installed (twice- first time did not work AT ALL so tore it all down again..) .. matched up the 3 lines, etc.. did the deal where you line up the dist w the #1 plug according to the manual.. We now have a turning rotor, spark from the coil to dist etc.. Car will now start barely, and runs only if you hold the gas pedal down above 1,000RPMs = runs like crap Im guessing the timing is still off..?? What should the next step be? Should try to adjust w a timing light? or should we tear her down again and start over with setting the belts.. (getting kind of fast at it now..) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooziewhatsit Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 so with the flywheel at the three marks, you put the drivers side belt on with the cam dot up. Then turned the engine over once (flywheel back to the three marks), then put the passenger side belt on, right? It's a very easy mistake to not turn the engine over inbetween each belt. I've done the procedure several times, and almost forgot that step last time I did some belts. Caught it before I had too much put back together though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Humble Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 so with the flywheel at the three marks, you put the drivers side belt on with the cam dot up. Then turned the engine over once (flywheel back to the three marks), then put the passenger side belt on, right? It's a very easy mistake to not turn the engine over inbetween each belt. I've done the procedure several times, and almost forgot that step last time I did some belts. Caught it before I had too much put back together though. If you look close at the timing belt cover you will notice there is a timing mark at the bottom of the cover also. So if you set the right timing mark on the top mark on the cover and the left timing mark on the bottom mark on the cover, you can time it without turning the engine over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me46han Posted November 8, 2005 Author Share Posted November 8, 2005 so with the flywheel at the three marks, you put the drivers side belt on with the cam dot up. Then turned the engine over once (flywheel back to the three marks), then put the passenger side belt on, right? It's a very easy mistake to not turn the engine over inbetween each belt. I've done the procedure several times, and almost forgot that step last time I did some belts. Caught it before I had too much put back together though. \\ WHEW!!! Thanks for the tip.. I read this last night before leaving for home..we had NOT turned it in between belts. Went home and redid.. the right way - (the book said nothing about this!) put back together, checked the timing w the light.. then cranked it up.. AND SHE RUNS! (The bell of sweet victory rang out across the land.) Took out for a test drive.. and its PERFECT! runs better than before, quiet and more power. I owe our success to all you folks here on USMB. otherwise..would have been down for weeks trying to figure this out - (weve been doing all the repairs outside in the rain and about 4 inches of mud..) THANK YOU for getting 'rosie' back on the road...!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me46han Posted November 11, 2005 Author Share Posted November 11, 2005 Yeah .. so the victory bell rang too soon for my timing belt change-out!!! Rosie ran fine - for a day .. then, with a heaving screeching horrible sound.. crapped out on me.. AGAIN just like before - but this time..with a carload of kids, and the dog about 5 miles from home - pitch dark. (at least there was a place to pull of the road this time:)) tried to start her up again, and same exact sound.. crank crank craaaaank!!! timing belt !!! WTH!!! beaten and worn from days of rosie drama .. i just gave in, and called the tow truck. towed her home next day inspection found the idler pulley bearings to be seized.. brand new belt was torn down one side, and oil pump gear bent.. CARNAGE!!!! wait till 3 pm when the auto parts store has the new bearing in.. replace idler pulley bearing, two new belts, and oil pump gear back in place.. go to torque the idler pullley down.. and it just spins, wont tighten..the hole in the engine head, that the bolt goes into, is STRIPPED!!!! oh... MAN so last night we go to some obscure auto parts store 2 towns away and purchase a helicoil kit that fits the idler pulley bolt installed it today - put her back together car runs again - for now rough road.. but happy ending..I THINK.. SO FAR (????) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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