LocalHero Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Hi to all here from a newbie! My first car was a '74 Subaru GL coupe and was maybe the best car I've ever owned. Now I'm 30 years older and looking at another. I'm considering a '98 OB limited that has 84,000 miles on it. My eyes are buggy from reading posts about head gaskets, phase I engines, overheating, etc and I get the general picture but have a couple of questions. The current owner of the car tells me the timing and all other belts were replaced at 70K. He also says "the rear transaxle was replaced about 1,200 miles ago". He reports never having any other problems with the car. I'm confused on the phase I engine references on this board...would that include all '98 Outbacks? Does the fact that this car has 84K on it without problems suggest that it won't likely have them in the future? If I do need to replace the head gaskets, is it an expensive job and can I then figure the problem fixed or will it likely be recurring. I'm not a mechanic and I'd have the work done professionally. Finally, not a mechanic, I don't even know what a transaxle is but it doesn't sound like routine maintenance to have it replaced at 80K. Does this event point to another potential problem? The ask is $6,900 and it's 1 1/2hrs away so I'm trying to fortify my knowledge before I go look and maybe take it to a mechanic to go over. Thanks for all help, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickensheets Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I would ask why the Timing belt was replaced early - 105K is the recommended figure. Ther is no rear transaxle. The seller is uninformed about the car and you may use that to your advantage. Ask who his mechanic is and if he tells you - call him and see what really occurred. I have a 97 Limited. Good rig. 110k miles no probs knock on wood. And yes the headgasket thing is curable, not a reoccuring thing. There was simply some bad gaskets out there. If you visit the car look for signs of gasket failure (do a search of this forum) and torque bind if its an automatic. check ebay for prices. rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rweddy Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Hi to all here from a newbie! My first car was a '74 Subaru GL coupe and was maybe the best car I've ever owned. Now I'm 30 years older and looking at another.I'm considering a '98 OB limited that has 84,000 miles on it. My eyes are buggy from reading posts about head gaskets, phase I engines, overheating, etc and I get the general picture but have a couple of questions. The current owner of the car tells me the timing and all other belts were replaced at 70K. He also says "the rear transaxle was replaced about 1,200 miles ago". He reports never having any other problems with the car. I'm confused on the phase I engine references on this board...would that include all '98 Outbacks? Does the fact that this car has 84K on it without problems suggest that it won't likely have them in the future? If I do need to replace the head gaskets, is it an expensive job and can I then figure the problem fixed or will it likely be recurring. I'm not a mechanic and I'd have the work done professionally. Finally, not a mechanic, I don't even know what a transaxle is but it doesn't sound like routine maintenance to have it replaced at 80K. Does this event point to another potential problem? The ask is $6,900 and it's 1 1/2hrs away so I'm trying to fortify my knowledge before I go look and maybe take it to a mechanic to go over. Thanks for all help, John 96-99 2.5 are Phase I DOHC motors. They have HG issues, but it seems to be hit and miss. I have several friends who have close to 200k and no issues, but then my frather in laws 02 blew at 35k. The cost for repair is around $1500 for a shop, less if you do it yourself. Other than the possible HG issue, these are great cars, and you should not have any issues at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 I would ask why the Timing belt was replaced early - 105K is the recommended figure. Ther is no rear transaxle. The seller is uninformed about the car and you may use that to your advantage. Ask who his mechanic is and if he tells you - call him and see what really occurred. I have a 97 Limited. Good rig. 110k miles no probs knock on wood. And yes the headgasket thing is curable, not a reoccuring thing. There was simply some bad gaskets out there. If you visit the car look for signs of gasket failure (do a search of this forum) and torque bind if its an automatic. check ebay for prices. rd Seller referred to the 70K mile belt replacements as "a maintenance item". I hope he has records, he may not have even had the T belt replaced and only thought he did. Torque bind. Now you've given me another term to research. It is an automatic and does have the 2.5 engine. Thanks for the help. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 96-99 2.5 are Phase I DOHC motors. They have HG issues, but it seems to be hit and miss. I have several friends who have close to 200k and no issues, but then my frather in laws 02 blew at 35k. The cost for repair is around $1500 for a shop, less if you do it yourself. Other than the possible HG issue, these are great cars, and you should not have any issues at all. That's enough $$ to scare me a bit. I'm a carpenter and too many times when I play mechanic I end up with skinned knuckles and lots of frustration. I don't have the tools or knowledge to make it "easy". I'll call my mechanic and see what he quotes in case there's an issue. thanks, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I'm considering a '98 OB limited that has 84,000 miles on it. all 98 era 2.5's are phase I and are prone to the head gasket issue. hit or miss and can happen at absolutely any time to any phase I 2.5. i'm mostly leary of these motors for people like you that have to buy one...because the head gasket issue is so hard to spot at first that it's a very easy car to sell when the issue first comes up. (someone on the board just bought one and had the head gasket issue shortly afterwards, look up the post if you're interested). my guess is the head gasket issue was there before he bought it and that's what motivated the seller. that's what i'm leary of. the new OEM Subaru headgasket does fix the problem, so if you do have to get them replaced (there are two head gaskets), they should not give you any more issues if installed properly. $1,000 - $1,500 dealer installed, independent shop might do it a little less (be nice if they're familiar with subaru's though!) be sure they install the Subaru gasket only. The current owner of the car tells me the timing and all other belts were replaced at 70K. He also says "the rear transaxle was replaced about 1,200 miles ago". He reports never having any other problems with the car. make SURE it's timing belts that were replaced. alot of people confuse accessory/drive belts with timing belts. by "all belts" replaced that could easily mean just the drive belt(s) and the unknowledgable owner assumes that also means timing belts but really he doesn't know. and maybe he did have the belts done early, but kind of weird to do a $500+ job earlier than it's needed. that being said someone may have incorrectly informed him or he may be accustomed to older cars where the belts are changed at 60-70,000. that used to be the norm and maybe he or the mechanic assumed it best to do it then on this one. best to clarify and be positive it was replace. these are interference motors, if the belt breaks other items could be damaged...valve/pistons. i've heard people refer to transmissions as "transaxles" before, so clarify that as well. maybe the transmission or the transfer clutches were replaced and he's misquoting? if something was replaced, i wouldn't consider that an issue. check the tires, if they are matching or not. if they are grossly different in tread that's not good for the trans. not gauranteed problems, but not preferrable either. The ask is $6,900 and it's 1 1/2hrs away so I'm trying to fortify my knowledge before I go look and maybe take it to a mechanic to go over. i'd shop around a bit and see what prices you can come up with. another option is to swap a 2.2 liter motor in place of the 2.5. you can pick up a 2.2 liter motor for a couple hundred and end up well under $1,000 (the head gasket price) and you don't have to worry about damaged heads, blown gaskets, etc. a little less power, but an excellent motor. the 2.2 is very robust. EDIT - in less than one minute i just found a 1997 Outback with 82,000 miles for $5,000 and all service records over the past 4 years (and they would likely come down lower than that, private seller). so i'd look around and see if you can get a slightly better deal. Double EDIT - i found the one you're looking at, looks nice! if you do test drive it, drive it for an extended period at highway speed and watch that temp gauge. if it moves or wavers at all i'd pass on it. may want to read past threads, these things run a little hot in weird circumstances, like at highway speeds or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 all 98 era 2.5's are phase I and are prone to the head gasket issue. hit or miss and can happen at absolutely any time to any phase I 2.5. i'm mostly leary of these motors for people like you that have to buy one...because the head gasket issue is so hard to spot at first that it's a very easy car to sell when the issue first comes up. (someone on the board just bought one and had the head gasket issue shortly afterwards, look up the post if you're interested). my guess is the head gasket issue was there before he bought it and that's what motivated the seller. that's what i'm leary of. the new OEM Subaru headgasket does fix the problem, so if you do have to get them replaced (there are two head gaskets), they should not give you any more issues if installed properly. $1,000 - $1,500 dealer installed, independent shop might do it a little less (be nice if they're familiar with subaru's though!) be sure they install the Subaru gasket only. I definitely wouldn't get it without having a mechanic look it over first. Now I can direct the mechanic to look hard at the head gasket issue. make SURE it's timing belts that were replaced. alot of people confuse accessory/drive belts with timing belts. by "all belts" replaced that could easily mean just the drive belt(s) and the unknowledgable owner assumes that also means timing belts but really he doesn't know. and maybe he did have the belts done early, but kind of weird to do a $500+ job earlier than it's needed. that being said someone may have incorrectly informed him or he may be accustomed to older cars where the belts are changed at 60-70,000. that used to be the norm and maybe he or the mechanic assumed it best to do it then on this one. best to clarify and be positive it was replace. these are interference motors, if the belt breaks other items could be damaged...valve/pistons. Yes, I'm suspecting he doesn't really understand what he's saying. Maybe paper records would clear it up if he has them but he's just moved from CA so I'm unlikely to talk to the shop where he had it done. i've heard people refer to transmissions as "transaxles" before, so clarify that as well. maybe the transmission or the transfer clutches were replaced and he's misquoting? if something was replaced, i wouldn't consider that an issue. check the tires, if they are matching or not. if they are grossly different in tread that's not good for the trans. not gauranteed problems, but not preferrable either. Again, paperwork might clear this up. I'll look at the tires, thanks. i'd shop around a bit and see what prices you can come up with. another option is to swap a 2.2 liter motor in place of the 2.5. you can pick up a 2.2 liter motor for a couple hundred and end up well under $1,000 (the head gasket price) and you don't have to worry about damaged heads, blown gaskets, etc. a little less power, but an excellent motor. the 2.2 is very robust. Being not-a-mechanic, I'll probably pass on the change the motor option. (you can really buy and install a motor for less than replacing head gaskets?) I had this done once, on the first Subaru I'd ever bought and it was never right after that. There's just too much I don't understand about it. EDIT - in less than one minute i just found a 1997 Outback with 82,000 miles for $5,000 and all service records over the past 4 years (and they would likely come down lower than that, private seller). so i'd look around and see if you can get a slightly better deal. Double EDIT - i found the one you're looking at, looks nice! if you do test drive it, drive it for an extended period at highway speed and watch that temp gauge. if it moves or wavers at all i'd pass on it. may want to read past threads, these things run a little hot in weird circumstances, like at highway speeds or something. Gee Gary, you're efficient! You found the one I'm considering on Craigslist? There aren't that many Outbacks around the Charleston area to choose from. I've bought plenty of stuff on Ebay but I'm leary of buying a car that way....how do you check it out? Anyway, thanks for all your advice. I'll proceed with caution and report back here if I do buy the car or find another. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I definitely wouldn't get it without having a mechanic look it over first. Now I can direct the mechanic to look hard at the head gasket issue. it's hard to detect, often undetectable, that's the scarry part. but a trained person will pick up anything obvious. you're aware of the issue so you should be fine, you can make your decision based on that info. it only sucks when people don't know then end up here and find out the issue later. nice to know ahead of time. there's no telling what the actual failure rate is of the head gaskets. it's more than any other subaru motor, but still probably not that bad. a site like this will get all the complaints and issues while the cars rolling around with 100,000, 200,000 miles never ask any questions or go poking around for solutions to issues. if it's 10 percent...that might be a high rate compared to most soobs, but still only a 1 in 10 chance for not a *huge* issue. and it's not a "blown" gasket type of failure in the typical sense, it'll run for a very long time with minor internal/external leaks. so you're not going to get stranded and have plenty of time to organize/plan for the repair if you do see symptoms. Yes, I'm suspecting he doesn't really understand what he's saying. Maybe paper records would clear it up if he has them but he's just moved from CA so I'm unlikely to talk to the shop where he had it done. i actually had good luck calling a dealer once and they went through the service records with me, a Subaru dealer even. it was a 10 plus year old car, one owner and he went through all the records detailing the major maintenance done to it. worth a phone call at least. Being not-a-mechanic, I'll probably pass on the change the motor option. (you can really buy and install a motor for less than replacing head gaskets?) I. you'd have the mechanic install the motor. a motor swap only takes a few hours, much less time than a head gasket job. head gaskets are cheap, labor to install them alot because it's a long job. yes a motor swap can be cheaper if you get a good deal on a motor. motor for 200-500 and 200 to install you're looking at 400-700 price tag, half of what a head gasket job costs. with overheating/head gaskets you have the possibility of head damage, even block damage or heads needing resurfaced/machine shop work, so installing another motor removes those possibly very expensive risks and reduces time as well. installing another 2.5 is a horrible idea unless it has new head gaskets. You found the one I'm considering on Craigslist? There aren't that many Outbacks around the Charleston area to choose from. I've bought plenty of stuff on Ebay but I'm leary of buying a car that way i didn't mention ebay or look there, but i've bought a few that way. only really good deals as i plan on them needing *something*. i wouldn't buy a 2.5 that way unless it was a smoking deal. good luck with the search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 Well the OB I was looking at sold today but I feel like I've gained a lot of knowledge to help with my future search. Much thanks to all who contributed to my knowledge gain! A final question would be where to look. Charleston's local paper has nada and the one I came across on Craig's list was the first I've seen. Ebay vehicles do come up on occasion and I'll continue to look there. I'm wanting a wagon for the space and the awd and clearance would be nice as I kayak a bit and sometimes am traveling unpaved roads. Still I've also cast my eye on Jetta/Passat largely because a girl I was seeing has a diesel Jetta that gets 48mpg. I was going for Subaru because of their reputation. Seems like that's a little less stellar than I thought but I'll still keep them as one of my top choices. Thanks again for all help, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 sorry you missed out on that one. can you travel? i bought one 800 miles away for a great deal and flew there one way for under 50 bucks and drove it home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 sorry you missed out on that one. can you travel? i bought one 800 miles away for a great deal and flew there one way for under 50 bucks and drove it home. Sure I can travel, if it seems worth it. One difficulty in a vehicle from a distance is that I'd want a mechanic to look it over so I'd have to find one near the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 i was going to offer to check the $5,000 82,000 mile impreza out for you here in DC, but i can't find it today??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 i was going to offer to check the $5,000 82,000 mile impreza out for you here in DC, but i can't find it today??? I hadn't thought of looking at the impreza....isn't it smaller than the outback? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 sorry...actually i can't recall exactly which model it was. impreza outbacks (impreza outback sport/ OBS) are smaller than legacy outbacks (full wagon). i think it was an impreza outback, but don't really remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 sorry...actually i can't recall exactly which model it was. impreza outbacks (impreza outback sport/ OBS) are smaller than legacy outbacks (full wagon). i think it was an impreza outback, but don't really remember. I didn't realize the Impreza is an outback...is that just for the wagon model that they call it that? I also thought the Legacy outback was what they were called in the 90's and that the legacy and outbacks were different now a days. I don't mean to be splitting hairs, just trying to be not mixed up on the terminology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 the impreza outback sport is the "short" guy, it's not a full sized wagon. sort of like a hatchback/half a wagon type. i don't know all the particulars, years, models, etc exactly. you're right, the full sized wagons are legacy outbacks, sorry to confuse you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rweddy Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I'm wanting a wagon for the space and the awd and clearance would be nice as I kayak a bit and sometimes am traveling unpaved roads. Still I've also cast my eye on Jetta/Passat largely because a girl I was seeing has a diesel Jetta that gets 48mpg. I was going for Subaru because of their reputation. Seems like that's a little less stellar than I thought but I'll still keep them as one of my top choices. Thanks again for all help, John The HG fix would be less than a regular service maintance on a Passat! Be very careful if you buy a VW they have very poor reliability ratings. My sister in law has lots of trouble with hers, and a friend of mine at work just had his motor blow at 60k due to know sludge issue with the motors. Even if you do have a HG go, very unlikely, this is the only issue with these cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 i bougth a wrecked OBS from a guy and he has a new VW jetta diesel and said the car is okay but he doesn't care for it too much. when i go pick the car up i'll try to ask him why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Guys, couldn't you get an Outback Sport with a 2.2? By this I mean the smaller wagon. If I did not constantly use the larger hauling capacity of the Forester and just di things like go biking or sking where the major load can be outside I would love one of those. I had a neighbor I got talking to one day at the library who has one of those small wagons and he thought it is a 2.2. He says the smaller engine and he is not mechanical enough to know. He has had absolutely no trouble with the car and loves it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rweddy Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Guys, couldn't you get an Outback Sport with a 2.2? By this I mean the smaller wagon. If I did not constantly use the larger hauling capacity of the Forester and just di things like go biking or sking where the major load can be outside I would love one of those. I had a neighbor I got talking to one day at the library who has one of those small wagons and he thought it is a 2.2. He says the smaller engine and he is not mechanical enough to know. He has had absolutely no trouble with the car and loves it. Side note, isn't a Forester just a raised roof impreza outback sport? I know the forester is based on the impreza not the legacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 That's about all it is I think Rich. The thing about the Forester is that over here they were only available with the 2.5. Even though I have the phase 2 2.5 it still has not been the greatest pleasure of the car requireing head gaskets and giving me the joys of piston slap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Guys, couldn't you get an Outback Sport with a 2.2? yes, they had 2.2's. i have two 97's and one 98 and they all have the 2.2 liter in them (i think they do anyway!). the 97 definitely has a 2.2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Envy envy. Don't think that I am not considering a 2.2 for the Forester if this thing carves anytime soon. So far it just keeps slapping along only when cold. I am waiting for the results of my oil analasis to see if it has extra aluminum in it. One other thought is a new turbo block. It should have lower compression and run forever, the only thing is that I might lose fuel mileage which is not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero Posted January 6, 2006 Author Share Posted January 6, 2006 Keeping up with this thread (I thought the site would email me with new posts to the thread but I guess only with replies to my own posts?) I gather that I want to stay away from the phase 1 2.5 engines and maybe even the early phase II 2.5's unless its a great deal. What about the 2002 outbacks and later? Are they still beset with the higher rate of HG failure? (I haven't had time to understand torque bind yet) I'm looking more on Ebay and coming across some that seem interesting at least. Haven't found anything more local yet but I'm just trying to educate myself further so the next one doesn't disappear while I research. Thanks, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 What about the 2002 outbacks and later? Are they still beset with the higher rate of HG failure? nope. go buck wild on those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.