BlueSkies Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Hello - I'm new to the Forum. So, "Hello" to everyone. I have been looking to buy a used Outback Wagon, however, it seems that every one I look at and start up I hear the valves tapping, and especially loudly on cold start up. Is this normal??? Will it only get worse? Are these normally loud engines anyway? Thanks for any insights - The Outback would be great to cart my kayak and "stuff" around in, but I really don't want to buy into any inherent problems or have down time. BlueSkies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendly_jacek Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 My 00 (same engine) is noisy, last time I checked, 75 db at idle. It sounds more like noisy injectors though. Also, don't forget that this engine is prone to develop piston slap, so that may be what you hear too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSkies Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 Thank you for your reply. So, I am just not getting it, the engine is noisy, it develops piston slaps, blown head gaskets, etc, etc, - what's the attraction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 head gaskets are not issues on '02 and newer 2.5 soobs. you may see piston slap and torque bind, but that doesn't mean every subaru gets it. this forum is like the emergency room...people that need help come here, but that doesn't mean everyone in the world is in critical condition. for each technical expert here, there's plenty more transients that drop by for quick fixes and information. i have yet to work on or be in a 2.5 myself with any noises, they've all been smooth as silk and ran great. haven't been in many, but a good track record (for me, less work to do on my friends/relatives cars!!!) i have an OBS and it rocks. 2.2 all the way baby. no head gaskets, no piston slap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSkies Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 Thank you for your reply. Maybe you can help me. What does piston slap mean? Do I lose performance - gas mileage - is it just noisy? The '03 I'm looking at has 61,000 miles. What happens at that mileage? The "noise" was much louder on start up and when I would step on the gas to accelerate, the engine / valves / pistons would be noisy. The dealer mechanic said I was hearing the fuel injectors injecting fuel. My mechanic heard two sounds, one a ticking from a belt or something and the other from the valves - more on the right than the left and quieter now that the car was warmed up after a 15 mile ride. Additionally, one of the hoses (larger diameter one - maybe from the air intake? - you're right I don't know what I'm talking about) was shaking (vibrating) noticeably. So much for technical jargon - what is it that is going on? Please help - and thanks. BlueSkies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Its a pain in the butt but many modern cars have piston slap. It tends to go away when warm. This is because of emissions regulations. Odds are pretty that is what you folks were hearing. If you go to Bob is the oil guy you can see my oil test where Blackstone labs says it is common and does not seem to hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSkies Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 Thanks - Trying to understand all this. You and the other replies I've received have been very helpful. I'm heading out for the hunt now! Blue Skies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 with all the noise and "shaking" i think i'd stay away from that one myself. unless it was a smoking deal and i didn't mind throwing another engine in it if something did go wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboystrait Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 blu i myself woud not buy a obs because my freind hunter chevy herein nc says that these cars are in fact a prototype that meens there subject too recall basiclly sayin there JUNK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSkies Posted February 7, 2006 Author Share Posted February 7, 2006 To Grossgary: Thanks - I did stay away. Found an 02 with 37,000 but still with piston slap (At least that is what I think it is - clears up noticeably upon warming) Whadayatink? To: cowboystrait: Can you expound upon your comments? Thanks all. BlueSkies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 These cars are a long way from a prototype. At this point the phase 2 has been around since 1999 in Foresters and Imps and since 2000 in the other models. Since they came along after the 2.2 it might be like being the comedian following Groucho Marx on the bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monk Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 I have an 02 OBW and would definitely recommend an 03 or newer, especially if you want a manual transmission. Unless, of course, the clutch on an 02 has already been replaced (if you happen to consider buying an 02 that is) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swc7916 Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 The service advisor at the dealership claims that piston slap is a result of the piston skirts being short in relation to the diameter of the piston, so that the piston can "rock" in the cylinder. Anyway, both my 2002 and 2004 Outbacks have it and they have 25k and 30k miles on them respectively. It is kind of annoying, but goes away in a couple of miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitz Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 The pistons in my 2.5 completely rock! It's the OB-GYN that you want to steer clear of. **** ******! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benebob Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 My O3 has had valve noise on cold starts since new. Goes away after about a minute in 50 or so degree weather. Might also wanna look at a Legacy wagon or even a GT wagon as it'll be cheaper, handle better, ride better and stop quicker as I'm guessing that in NJ you're not in need of that extra inch of ground clearance. It isn't needed in snow either if that's what you were thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSkies Posted February 8, 2006 Author Share Posted February 8, 2006 Well - thanks to everyone - I've purchased an 02' Outback Legacy Wagon. Yep -piston's are a singin' initially. But I feel I'm in good company. Hope I did the right thing - I'm still not completely comfortable, but I'm in for the ride. It's got 37,000 miles on it. What can I expect from this point on? BlueSkies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggywerewolf Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Well, if you're like me and are used to smaller engines in smaller cars that sort of lap up gas, then be prepared for the first time you fill up the tank Otherwise, my '03 OBW runs great (aside from the piston slap, which I can live with) and handles better than the car I replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rweddy Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 head gaskets are not issues on '02 and newer 2.5 soobs.you may see piston slap and torque bind, but that doesn't mean every subaru gets it. this forum is like the emergency room...people that need help come here, but that doesn't mean everyone in the world is in critical condition. for each technical expert here, there's plenty more transients that drop by for quick fixes and information. i have yet to work on or be in a 2.5 myself with any noises, they've all been smooth as silk and ran great. haven't been in many, but a good track record (for me, less work to do on my friends/relatives cars!!!) i have an OBS and it rocks. 2.2 all the way baby. no head gaskets, no piston slap. Actually my father just had his 03 HG replaced in July. These were external leaks but still leaks with 36k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitz Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Well - thanks to everyone - I've purchased an 02' Outback Legacy Wagon. Yep -piston's are a singin' initially. But I feel I'm in good company. Hope I did the right thing - I'm still not completely comfortable, but I'm in for the ride. It's got 37,000 miles on it. What can I expect from this point on?The most likely stuff: Various interior and dash rattles, rattling exhaust heat-shields, torque-bind (4EAT), clutch judder (5-manual), external head-gasket leak on drivers side, air pockets in cooling system, oil leaks from the front cam seals and crank seal, chipped and cracked windshield, defective radiator cap. Hopefully no more than one at a time. **** ******! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtsmiths Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 ... air pockets in cooling system ... There is much anecdotal evidence on the board (and somewhere, a lengthy analysis) that most of the 2.5 HG issues start with this. A probably weak design seems to hold up unless and until someone causes air in the system, then the isolated overheat starts the HG death spiral. So as you do (or have done) cooling system maintenance make damnsure your cooling system is properly filled and burped. Our 2000 2.5 Legacy A/T has well over 170,000 miles with NO major issues. We do religious A/T service and either Subaru or I do cooling syetem, no one else. Good Luck, relax and enjoy. Remember, most of the folks here are posting because they either do have a problem, or else, like moi, they are Subaru nutz. There's hundreds of thousands of Subarus out there that we never hear about because they DO run perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rweddy Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 There is much anecdotal evidence on the board (and somewhere, a lengthy analysis) that most of the 2.5 HG issues start with this. A probably weak design seems to hold up unless and untill someone causes airt in the system then the isolated overheat starts the HG death spiral. So as you do (or have done) cooling system maintenance make damnsure your cooling system is properly filled and burped. Our 2000 2.5 Legacy A/T has well over 170,000 miles with NO major issues. We do religious A/T service and either Subaru or I do cooling syetem, no one else. Good Luck, relax and enjoy. Remember, most of the folks here are posting because they either do have a problem, or ewlse, like moi, they are Subaru nutz. There's hundreds of thousands of Subarus out there that we never hear about because they DO run perfectly. Great point, and even if you do run into a HG this is a issue with many Honda,Toyota, etc. This is the only troulbe area on the car and does not cost that much to fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendly_jacek Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Well - thanks to everyone - I've purchased an 02' Outback Legacy Wagon. Yep -piston's are a singin' initially. But I feel I'm in good company. Hope I did the right thing - I'm still not completely comfortable, but I'm in for the ride. It's got 37,000 miles on it. What can I expect from this point on? BlueSkies! See if the 30000 miles (or 30 months, whichever comes first) service was done by the book. It is very important to service subaru every 30000 miles. Do it yourself or by someone familiar with subarus, as they have its quirks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitz Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 then the isolated overheat starts the HG death spiral.That was originally put forth by a pilot who made observations of the cooling system on his Sube-air conversion while making full-power takeoff runs. It sounds entirely plausible to me but it wasn't universally embraced by everyone on this board. **** ******! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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