Forester Catalytic Converter Question

[rn7532]

I am a fairly new Subaru owner and so this is all rather new. Bear with me .

 

I have a 1999 Forester with almost 100,000 miles on it. The CEL came on about a month ago. I took it to the nearest Subaru dealer who told me that the catalytic converter (cc) needs to be replaced. Their quote: $985 + tax. I am currently doing volunteer work in New Orleans, so this seems like a lot to me! Sadly my Wynns extended care plan does not cover the cc. Subaru reset the CEL, but it came back on after a few ignition cycles.

 

I then took the car to Meineke they connected an OBD sensor and code 420 came up, which I understand indicates cc issues. He was unable to find a genuine part through his usual sources and so couldn't help. Though, he did stress that I find a genuine cc and not a generic one. He kindly reset the CEL.

 

I have looked at the various auto parts web sites and found the front and back parts of the cc for around $325 each, for a total of $650. I guess both parts need to be replaced. Are these likely to be genuine parts? Why are the models for California cheaper? The car was bought there new.

 

Should I order these parts and take them to my local mechanic or the Mieneke guy to fit?

 

I have read postings from others discussing O2 sensors etc. Would these need replacing as well? Or would the Subaru dealer be my best bet? Like anyone, I want to do this in the most cost effective way possible.

 

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Ronald

[dxrflyboy]

It's best to avoid welding in a universal cat, which chains like Meineke like to install. Direct fit aftermarket cats are sometimes available, but not always. Aside from an OEM replacement from a dealer, I would consider an aftermarket direct fit your only other option. Also, the front cat is the only one monitored by the ECU. The back one has no effect on the CEL.

[cookie]

I have a 99 that was giving me PO420. I changed the front ox sensor a couple months ago and lost the code. I imagine the cats are a bit tired too but changing the ox sensor was pretty cheap and took me about 10 minutes. The ox sensor should really be changed at around 100,000 miles so what have you got to lose?

[gbrand]

I have a 99 that was giving me PO420. I changed the front ox sensor a couple months ago and lost the code. I imagine the cats are a bit tired too but changing the ox sensor was pretty cheap and took me about 10 minutes. The ox sensor should really be changed at around 100,000 miles so what have you got to lose?

 

....yes bad sensors can cause a 0420 code to be thrown. Search and you may find one old thread I responded to and there was also a recall on the 02 sensors in some years as well. And unless you are burdened by a drivability issue, ie if the cat was clogged, why bother unless you need the light out to pass inspection? If you go with an aftermarket cat, make sure it is OBD2 compatible-many are not.

[gbrand]

here the text from my original post and reply ffrom fellow user that was saved 800 bucks....

 

 

mtsmiths

 

Registered User

Posts: 1

(12/6/01 9:29:06 am)

Reply

Persistant 'Check Engine' light The check engine light came on in the '00 Lagacy I just bought for the Pretty One. Just after it rolled 100,000 mi the check engine light came on, she read the manual and found the she had failed to tighten the gas cap, which will send a fault signal. We disconnected the batterey overnight and the light went out. It came back a day or so later, so we took it to the local Subaru dealer and had the fault read. They say it's a faulty catalytic converter signal, but can't find anything wrong with the cat. Dealer says that even tho the cat seems fine, if the signal comes back the only way to get rid of it is to replace the cat to the tune of $600+. It's come ba-aaaack.

 

 

Since I know the cat is OK I really don't want to pay $600 to turn off an idiot light. On the other hand - Now we won't know if anything else goes wrong that we *should* be paying attention to, since the light is always on. I'll hit the Subaru board, but anyone here got any ideas?

 

THANX

gbrand

Registered User

Posts: 177

(12/6/01 10:14:01 am)

Reply | Edit Re: Persistant 'Check Engine' light From what I understand the way the ECu sees the cat bad is that the second Ox sensor , behind the cat, mointors thecat, not used for controlling engine I am told. So, Oxygen content in air past cat should be less than at upstream sensor(in manifold?) as CAt should be using Oxygen to burn up partially burned CO and HC. O2 sensors put out a voltage that gets higher as the oxygen concentration gets less, so typically read 0 Vols in air, and 100-200 millivots in normal operation. My truck downstreamsensor was reading well over 300 millivolts, saw at emission test there was 0% oxygen in exhaust. SO, if measure output of sensor and compare to up stream side, if same the cat ain't working, if higherthe cat is. Or downstream sensor is bad. Check after engine has warmed up, but don't replace blindly. The three or 4 wires are heater voltage, heater gnd(will be to case if 3 wire sensor), signal outut, signal gnd. So measure between signal output and signal gnd and see what you get. Of course diconnecting and measuring with engine running will set code for O2 sensor, so clear it later or someone will sell you an O2 sensor you don't need mtsmiths

Registered User

Posts: 9

(12/11/01 3:15:47 pm)

Reply Check engine Light Follow-up Thanks for all the comments, especially to gbrand. I got the car registered with Subaru national, who promptly informed me that the car had not responded to recall WXW80 error reporting by front 02 sensor - resulting in *you guessed it* check engine light.

 

I called the dealer that had diagnosed a bad cat and asked, "Don't you diagnose a bad cat by comparing 02 sensor read-outs?" he said "Yes". "If the car had a bad front sensor could that lead you to deduce a bad cat?" he said "Yes". "Did you verify recall WXW80?" ... slight pause he says "Is that the front 02 sensor recall notice?" *I* said "Yes", he said "No"; and scheduled the recall replacement.

 

The moral of the story is ... the Subaru dealer was fully prepared to sell me an unneeded $800.00 cat converter, without checking a known recall, and of course during that repair they would have replaced both sensors, so I would never have known.

 

I don't know if they are crooks or idiots, but I sure don't trust them either way. I sure wish my indy mechanic that keeps our '87 alive could work on this NewGen Soobie.

[Broyer]

Does anybody know if Subaru is still honoring recall WXW80? I have a 2000 OBW w/ 170K miles with the same problem. I have never replaced the sensors because the car runs fine and I seem to get decent mileage. (24MPG avg.) This recall did not come up for my VIN. However, I read on some other thread that Subaru covered it for other VIN's not included in the original recall. Does anyone know and should I take it to Subaru or would I be wasting my time... Thanks.

[jon38iowa]

I am a fairly new Subaru owner and so this is all rather new. Bear with me .

 

I have a 1999 Forester with almost 100,000 miles on it. The CEL came on about a month ago. I took it to the nearest Subaru dealer who told me that the catalytic converter (cc) needs to be replaced. Their quote: $985 + tax. I am currently doing volunteer work in New Orleans, so this seems like a lot to me! Sadly my Wynns extended care plan does not cover the cc. Subaru reset the CEL, but it came back on after a few ignition cycles.

 

I then took the car to Meineke they connected an OBD sensor and code 420 came up, which I understand indicates cc issues. He was unable to find a genuine part through his usual sources and so couldn't help. Though, he did stress that I find a genuine cc and not a generic one. He kindly reset the CEL.

 

I have looked at the various auto parts web sites and found the front and back parts of the cc for around $325 each, for a total of $650. I guess both parts need to be replaced. Are these likely to be genuine parts? Why are the models for California cheaper? The car was bought there new.

 

Should I order these parts and take them to my local mechanic or the Mieneke guy to fit?

 

I have read postings from others discussing O2 sensors etc. Would these need replacing as well? Or would the Subaru dealer be my best bet? Like anyone, I want to do this in the most cost effective way possible.

 

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Ronald

Hi:

I also have a '99 Forester, and at 120,000k my CEL came on full time; I took it to my mechanic (simillar to meinike) and they reset the CEL, and like you it came back within a short period of time; They replaced one of the O2 sensors($150.00) and that cured my problem! I'd give that a shot first, moreover I recomend avoiding the dealership, a converter replacement is fairly routine job.

John

[nipper]

I am a fairly new Subaru owner and so this is all rather new. Bear with me .

 

I have a 1999 Forester with almost 100,000 miles on it. The CEL came on about a month ago. I took it to the nearest Subaru dealer who told me that the catalytic converter (cc) needs to be replaced. Their quote: $985 + tax. I am currently doing volunteer work in New Orleans, so this seems like a lot to me! Sadly my Wynns extended care plan does not cover the cc. Subaru reset the CEL, but it came back on after a few ignition cycles.

 

I then took the car to Meineke they connected an OBD sensor and code 420 came up, which I understand indicates cc issues. He was unable to find a genuine part through his usual sources and so couldn't help. Though, he did stress that I find a genuine cc and not a generic one. He kindly reset the CEL.

 

I have looked at the various auto parts web sites and found the front and back parts of the cc for around $325 each, for a total of $650. I guess both parts need to be replaced. Are these likely to be genuine parts? Why are the models for California cheaper? The car was bought there new.

 

Should I order these parts and take them to my local mechanic or the Mieneke guy to fit?

 

I have read postings from others discussing O2 sensors etc. Would these need replacing as well? Or would the Subaru dealer be my best bet? Like anyone, I want to do this in the most cost effective way possible.

 

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Ronald

 

Unless you get a bad tank of gas, Subaru cats last a long long time. This is SO typical of a bad o2 sensor or two.

never go to meinieke BAD.

Also cats can be had for much less then dealer prices, and cats dont have to be OE equipment, as replacements must be ceritified by the manufacturer to meet EPA standards.

buy the o2 sensor from subaru, and have somone install it for you (if you cant do it yourself).

now if it is a cat JC whitney has good prices and search the net for replacement sellers. Even if you do need a cat, your most likely going to need o2 sensors anyway at that mileage, so your not risking any money.

 

nipper

[TM875]

I am, too, a new user and a new Subaru owner, as well. My 2001 OBW had its CEL come on yesterday and read the cc trouble code, so I'm in the process of waiting for the dealer to fix it. However, there is apparently a Federal Emissions warranty for any car under 8 years / 80,000 miles that covers these types of repairs.

 

Now, that being said (and knowing that Subaru, therefore, is liable to replace my cc and whatever else is wrong), do you all think that it would be prudent to suggest that they just try replacing the O2 sensors, or just let them do the cat replacement?

[Broyer]

From what I've read on other posts relating to the o2 sensors, it appears that they output of the sensors can be measured. Maybe the Soob dealer can test them before replacement. Search P0420 for all kinds of info on o2 sensors and cc's.

[Manarius]

It takes a LONG time for Cats to go bad. I'm willing to bet that replacing the O2 sensor will fix most if not all these people's problems.

[TM875]

It takes a LONG time for Cats to go bad. I'm willing to bet that replacing the O2 sensor will fix most if not all these people's problems.

 

After reading this thread, I took my 01 OBW to a registered dealer / service center to have it looked at (the cel went out in the interim time while waiting for the appointment). I told them that it was diagnosed with P0420 and that I thought it was most likely just the O2 sensor. Turns out, they said the cat was readign inefficiently and needed to be replaced, under warranty.

 

My question is, what would possibly cause a Subaru cat to go bad at only 67,XXX miles (ironically only 2 weeks after I bought the car, used). Is this just a fluke problem, something typical of the 3.0L engine (which was new that MY), or did I just get a lemony wagon?

[nipper]

After reading this thread, I took my 01 OBW to a registered dealer / service center to have it looked at (the cel went out in the interim time while waiting for the appointment). I told them that it was diagnosed with P0420 and that I thought it was most likely just the O2 sensor. Turns out, they said the cat was readign inefficiently and needed to be replaced, under warranty.

 

My question is, what would possibly cause a Subaru cat to go bad at only 67,XXX miles (ironically only 2 weeks after I bought the car, used). Is this just a fluke problem, something typical of the 3.0L engine (which was new that MY), or did I just get a lemony wagon?

 

a couple of things here....

 

The dealer said the cat was bad because they bill that back to subaru. i doubt the cat was bad.

95% of the time its a bad o2 sensor, not the cat, unless you have oodles of miles on the car.

The reasons cats will fail, is bad gas, or the car running too rich.

 

nipper