ericem Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Hi, i have a 80w sound system like most 90's legs. Any way i was wondering how i can make the speakers sound better without spending alot of money. I also heard if i spray the speakers with wd-40 or something to lubricate the speakers it help. Any ideas. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnlyfnd Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Dont spray your speakers w/ anything. Buy a deck first and foremost. The new head unit will give you cleaner more powerful sound, with more audio controls then your factory head unit. Then if your still not happy buy speakers. the speakers in the doors are small so they are not that expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted March 14, 2006 Author Share Posted March 14, 2006 all 4 speakers in the 93 leg are 6.5in right? If i just change the speakers will it help? ANd whats the rms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnlyfnd Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 rms is the wattage rating for the component when it is at its optimal clarity/performance. If your changing your speakers only then dont go very high in wattage. Your factory deck is only kicking out like 10watts at most so you will be severly under powering your new speakers, which means they will crackle and barely even work. I highly suggest you get a new head unit first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splicesite Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 rms is the wattage rating for the component when it is at its optimal clarity/performance. If your changing your speakers only then dont go very high in wattage. Your factory deck is only kicking out like 10watts at most so you will be severly under powering your new speakers, which means they will crackle and barely even work. I highly suggest you get a new head unit first. I actually think my 95 factory stereo sounds great for a stock stereo. And its not true that new speakers will crackle and barely work as posted above. If you still have the original factory speakers you will notice a great improvement in sound just by replacing the speakers and the sound will be fine - most lower-end consumer speakers are rated under 35-40W RMS MAX and will perform just fine at 5-10W which is fine for the factory stereo. There are many cheap, decent speakers available like alpine, sony, polk, blah blah.... Obviously if one wants awesome sound they should buy a new stereo, amps, high-end speakers, subwoofers, etc.... but that is not what you are looking for. You can get a pair of decent speakers for the front for between $50-$100. Personally I would recommend replacing the speakers first, not the deck. Stock speakers are made of paper and have surely degraded substantially over the past 13 years while sitting in the summer heat, getting wet in the winter, etc... Go to www.crutchfield.com , they have everything you need and are super helpful for new do-it-yourselfers with custom kits. Give them a call and they will tell you exactly what fits in your car or you can put your year/model in their website and it will show you what fits and stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green96GT Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 I replaced the front speakers in my 96 wagon with a pair of Infinity component speakers (separate midrange and tweeter, with a cross over). The midranges went right in the door (with a little tweaking) and the tweeters went in on the triangle piece at the front corner of the windows (inside the mirror mount). For $120 and 3 hrs work, it made a 500% improvement in my sound. Next up will be a powered subwoofer for the trunk, I think. Should be about another $100 for a cheap, low-end sub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnlyfnd Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Fact: Underpowering speakers will cause crackling. - I have now done some research on 6.5's and most rms between 5-40 so you will be fine. Crutchfield has a set of pioneers for $50 that will fit perfectly, although it may require cutting the back of the mount out to allow for the depth of the new speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAezb Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 The speaker drivers usually have the biggest impact on the final audio quality, followed by environmental acoustics and placement of the speakers in that environment, followed by the electronics. Start with replacing the stock drivers with something more upscale/refined. I have read a few reports that subaru owners replaced the stock drivers with Pioneer drivers at Crutchfield's recommendation, and made a big difference. IMO, Infinity's are good also, but I like the somewhat esoteric driver brands like Canton, Nakamichi, and ADS (although I'm not even sure Nakamichi and ADS even manufacture car audio anymore). The point is, there is a lot of choices for speaker upgrades at various budget levels that provide significant jump in the sound quality over the stock speakers. While power output and handling are important specs of electonics and speakers, remember to look at the speaker's efficiency/sensitivety numbers - higher dB numbers (92 to 94dB/meter) will provide higher volumes with less power like the stock units in Subarus. Most people listen at levels that require no more than 10 watts/channel anyway. If you want the high volume, dynamic punch, rock concert levels that can damage your hearing, then you'll need to look at replacing the head unit and/ or additional external amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiny Clark Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 IMO, I don't spend too much on car audio. It basically just masks road and wind noise in a car that isn't really too damn quiet. I usually have my driver's window open anyway. My sound equipment stays in my house. I did buy a Griffin roadtrip for my iPod, which I love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Without question, new speakers are the most cost effective way to upgrade the stock Subaru sound system. The head unit isn't great, but it really isn't that bad either. The stock speakers, however, are very, very bad. They are truly horrible. About $100-$150 will buy you a very nice pair of replacement speakers. Trust me, it will be the best $100 you ever spent on the car. I speak from experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distance Commuter Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 There's a big difference between the meaning & use of speaker watts vs. amp / receiver / head unit watts. Speaker watts is their capacity - what they can accept before they self-destruct. The amount of power that it needs in order to do a good job is determined by its efficiency, which is another specification, rated in decibels (loudness) at 1 watt at 1 meter distance. Most car speakers have very similar efficiency ratings these days - especially if you're comparing speakers of the same size. So save yourself the trouble of comparing, if you like. And most aftermarket speakers will easily handle the 10-20 watts that most of the low-medium priced 'stereos' will deliver. Amp/receiver watts is the amount of power the amp can put out, without delivering distorted sound. Turn it up loud enough, and it will get louder - but will start sounding like c**p, even if you've got $1000 speakers. That's distortion. There are different ways of measuring amp/receiver watts. Some makers use more conservative methods, others go for broke to print the highest numbers possible on their promo pieces. These, days, RMS watts at 1 % distortion is probably the best method you can hope for if you want to compare apples to apples. For quality home stereo, you will likely see amps rated in RMS watts at 0.1 % distortion, a much tougher standard. One of the main things that determines a speaker's quality is the magnet weight. heavy is good. You should be able to compare magnet weight specs between models. Watch out for terms like "magnet structure" which inflates the weight of the actual magnet by including just about every other metal part in the speaker. If it feels heavy and you see a big fat magnet (it's a round disk), that's a good indicator. If it says "24 oz. magnet structure" and your 3 year old nephew can toss a box of two across the room, that's bogus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted March 15, 2006 Author Share Posted March 15, 2006 Well, im going to check out ebay and look for a pair of speakers, but u guys think these look decent? http://cgi.ebay.ca/ALPINE-SPS-170A-6-1-2-200w-CAR-AUDIO-STEREO-SPEAKERS-5_W0QQitemZ5876248025QQcategoryZ18799QQtcZphotoQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem And thanks for the replies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAezb Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Well, im going to check out ebay and look for a pair of speakers, but u guys think these look decent?http://cgi.ebay.ca/ALPINE-SPS-170A-6-1-2-200w-CAR-AUDIO-STEREO-SPEAKERS-5_W0QQitemZ5876248025QQcategoryZ18799QQtcZphotoQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem And thanks for the replies! I've always respected Alpine products, especially their electronics. I have less experience (none actually) with their speakers. Speakers are a very personal choice, what one likes in the sound quality another may not. This is especially true of home audio loudspeakers, and to a lesser extent, car audio. You should try to demo some speakers of different brands/budgets at your local brick and morter stores. I know you stated your not looking to pour a lot of money into any upgrades, so I expect you won't want to spend a lot of time comparing. And it's a fairly safe bet that anything you choose will probably sound better than what you have now from those stock speakers, especially given their age. Something to look out for, check the physical size and DEPTH of what your car's doors will except for mounting speakers. Speakers brands/models have different mounting and depth specs, and some will not fit your vehicle, I guarantee you. In some instances modifications can be used for deep mounting depths, but generally wont be as clean and simple as the original factory mounted speakers. Start by using the Crutchfield "What Fits My Car" web utility. It will only list those speakers that Crutchfield carries that will fit your car, but I believe it will provide the mounting depth and any other considerations you need to be aware of....at least it use to. You can request a free Crutchfield catalog which includes a nice section of information on mounting specs for most cars and trucks - it may be on their website too. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-fhS0LNsLbgV/cgi-bin/autoinfo/autoinfo.asp?cm_re_o=lbpw_zy*czYlfBltB5*ctzfubflFYgzy There are other car audio websites that do this as well, so do some research to narrow down your final purchase. NOTE: not familiar with the 93 legacy (sedan or wagon), does it currently have coax speakers (tweeter/woofer mounted together as 1 unit, or a full range speaker) or do you have component speakers (tweeter and woofer are separate drivers, mounted in different locations)? You'll most likely want to replace the stock speaker configuration with the same type. Component replacements will be more expensive, but either should provide a big improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiny Clark Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 The easiest way to destry speakers and amps is too turn the volume up too high. With a 5 watt amp, you can easily fry 200 watt speakers because of what was said by commuter, distortion, which is actually the signal being clipped off, creating a flat voltage level. Speakers cannot handle clipping, because the voice coil tries to hold that signal, heats up, and starts to cook. This clipping also causes the amplifier transistor outputs to heat up, creating a Hiroshima effect. Tie me up, whip me and beat me, just don't make me listen to low fidelity... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splicesite Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Well, im going to check out ebay and look for a pair of speakers, but u guys think these look decent?http://cgi.ebay.ca/ALPINE-SPS-170A-6-1-2-200w-CAR-AUDIO-STEREO-SPEAKERS-5_W0QQitemZ5876248025QQcategoryZ18799QQtcZphotoQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem And thanks for the replies! I HIGHLY recommend you buy from crutchfield because they include a car model-specific install kit for FREE with any order. It is very helpful as it tells you exactly how to install the specific speakers in your specific cars and often includes trim pieces or risers or special screws that are specific for your car model. Every car is a bit different and even though the speakers are the correct size it doesnt mean they will just fit right in. Crutchfield has competitive prices and if its a little more pricey than some guy on ebay, its worth it for their custom install kit and awesome support. If you have any problem with installation, you just call them up and they will help you out on the phone. No, I dont work for crutchfield either!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I found simply replacing my original cassette head unit with another made a great difference in sound quality, especially considering it was a cheap $100 mp3 cd playing unit. I found the existing speakers to be more than sufficient if all you want is a little more bass, volume, and clarity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindingForester Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 The easiest way to destry speakers and amps is too turn the volume up too high. With a 5 watt amp, you can easily fry 200 watt speakers because of what was said by commuter, distortion, which is actually the signal being clipped off, creating a flat voltage level. Speakers cannot handle clipping, because the voice coil tries to hold that signal, heats up, and starts to cook. This clipping also causes the amplifier transistor outputs to heat up, creating a Hiroshima effect. No, this is incorrect. You couldn't possibly "fry" 200-watt loudspeakers with a 5-watt amp. Even if you drive the amp into extremely heavy clipping, the worst that could happen is it would put out 10-watt square waves. A 200-watt loudspeaker should be able to dissipate that much power easily. The voice coil does not "try to hold [a] signal." Clipping causes heavier than normal current to pass through the output transistors, but since they are typically in saturation at that point, there is no appreciable voltage drop across them. Therefore the power dissipation in the transistors during clipping is not as high as at midpower. The average power of the audio signal is higher than normal, though, and that will cause heating. The worst heat dissipation in a class AB output section is normally at around 1/3 of full power. Bob Lee 2005 Forester XS; 13,000+ miles 1988 VW Golf GL; 243,000+ miles Costa Mesa, California Previous Subes: 1992 Legacy L station wagon (sideswiped; totaled) 1995 Legacy LS station wagon (head-on; totaled) 1998 Forester L (rear ended; totaled) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiophobe Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Great, informative thread. I just bought an '01 LL Bean OBW. I noticed that some vehicles have a subwoofer as an option. Is it a good thought to add this and how would you install one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 There's a big difference between the meaning & use of speaker watts vs. amp / receiver / head unit watts. Speaker watts is their capacity - what they can accept before they self-destruct. The amount of power that it needs in order to do a good job is determined by its efficiency, which is another specification, rated in decibels (loudness) at 1 watt at 1 meter distance. Most car speakers have very similar efficiency ratings these days - especially if you're comparing speakers of the same size. So save yourself the trouble of comparing, if you like. And most aftermarket speakers will easily handle the 10-20 watts that most of the low-medium priced 'stereos' will deliver. Amp/receiver watts is the amount of power the amp can put out, without delivering distorted sound. Turn it up loud enough, and it will get louder - but will start sounding like c**p, even if you've got $1000 speakers. That's distortion. There are different ways of measuring amp/receiver watts. Some makers use more conservative methods, others go for broke to print the highest numbers possible on their promo pieces. These, days, RMS watts at 1 % distortion is probably the best method you can hope for if you want to compare apples to apples. For quality home stereo, you will likely see amps rated in RMS watts at 0.1 % distortion, a much tougher standard. One of the main things that determines a speaker's quality is the magnet weight. heavy is good. You should be able to compare magnet weight specs between models. Watch out for terms like "magnet structure" which inflates the weight of the actual magnet by including just about every other metal part in the speaker. If it feels heavy and you see a big fat magnet (it's a round disk), that's a good indicator. If it says "24 oz. magnet structure" and your 3 year old nephew can toss a box of two across the room, that's bogus. i always like it when i get an education i always knew there was lost of elbow room in the specs, so i try to stick with the better brand names. i need to replace my speakers, and i think im going with OE as they sounded very good. After all its a car not a concert hall. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otis Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 wow, talk about information overload. OP, what is it about the stock sound do you not like? Not enough bass, not enough clarity? too much distortion? maybe once you put your finger on that, others can help you zero in on what to fix first. I saw the listing for the ebay auction for the speaker you're interested in. most people want to change the rear speakers first. I think the only thing that does is MARGINALLY improve your low end (if at all- especially if you don't add an amp or change the HU). if you want to spend the LEAST amount of money and get the most improvement, i suggest you buy a pair of cheap separates and mount the tweeters inside your rear view mirrors. This way you get an element of "dimension" and the music is aimed directly at you rather than getting lost in the bowels of your cabin. But if youre like most ricers, then you rate the quality of your stereo on its "BOOM" factor. In that case, get a powered sub and go annoy your neighbors. watch out for the slippery slope. you buy new speakers, but the HU stinks. so you buy a new HU but now you need low end, so you buy a sub and amp. but then you need new wiring to run the sub. suddenly you have a $2000 stereo in your car so you need to buy a $500 alarm system.... who knows where it ends. I find my biggest problem is that I can't hear the music well with all the road noise coming from highway. I think the only way to cure that is to buy a lexus. just consider the BEST speakers will still sound like crap in a noisy car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiophobe Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I have an 01' LL Bean. I saw that some of these vehicles came with a subwoofer under the seat. Is there a simple way to add one? Are they wired for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiny Clark Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Wow, Bob, you sure went out on limb when you said I couldn't possibly fry a high wattage speaker with a low powered amp. When I was in Germany before, we sometimes got really bored in the avionics shop during midshift. Actually, we managed to burn up two voice coils on different speakers with a car Pioneer car stereo. One was a 5 inch, and one a 6x9. I had to prove to an individual who I worked with that burned up two small hifi amps and screwed up one speaker that this was indeed possible. One voice coil opened, and the other burned so bad it distorted the paper material the coil was warapped on, negating the clearance necessary to allow the cone to move. Maybe on paper it shouldn't happen, but don't say it can't be done. Maybe if the sigal was a true square wave, but the clipping we induced as viewed on the o-scope wasn't of that nature. I also repaired home speakers and amplifiers at the audio-photo club due to insufficient power being used to play loud music in dorm rooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindingForester Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 I didn't say that loudspeakers can't be fried, only that you're not going to fry one by putting into it much, much less power than it can dissipate. Here's the limb that I'm out on: Two things kill speakers: overpowering and overexcursion. Overpowering is obvious. A speaker's continuous power rating is essentially a thermal rating. It's how much power it can handle on average over time and still not overheat. Overheating can cause the voice coil to burn open like a fuse, can melt the adhesives that hold the coil former, spider, and cone, and can cause other related damage, not only on paper but on kevlar and other materials, too. More than 90% of the audio power put into a typical loudspeaker turns into heat, and not acoustic energy. Therefore, speaker coils tend to heat up pretty readily. Overexcursion is excessive power at too low a frequency. The distance that the speaker cone has to travel to produce a certain sound pressure level, all else being equal, is inversely proportional to the square of the frequency. Thus, if you run a sine wave signal generator into a speaker and then run the frequency down one octave, keeping the voltage constant, the speaker cone will be traveling in and out four times the distance that it was before. If you go down far enough, the cone/coil assembly will bottom out, and that can cause damage, especially at high power levels. It could also crease the cone, or cause the former to break loose. If the loudspeaker is rated at 200 watts of power, you can't "fry" it with a 5-watt amp unless you modify the speaker. For example, if it's a full-range multi-way speaker and you bypass the passive crossover, you can easily pump way too much power into a midrange or tweeter, because in a 200-watt speaker system, the mid or tweet may typically be rated at only about 15 to 40 watts, which could make them vulnerable to overexcursion damage. If "underpowering" speakers was dangerous, we could never turn off our sound systems, because the zero watts that results would be the worst possible underpowering. Bob Lee 2005 Forester XS; 13,000+ miles 1988 VW Golf GL; 243,000+ miles Costa Mesa, California Previous Subes: 1992 Legacy L station wagon (sideswiped; totaled) 1995 Legacy LS station wagon (head-on; totaled) 1998 Forester L (rear ended; totaled) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiny Clark Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Sorry, I still disagree with you. Clipping, when it gets to a certain point is not a square wave, it's almost getting to the point of a DC voltage. This makes the speaker work almost like a solenoid, pulling it in one direction, and then it becomes as you said, a fuse. I can only go by what I have done and seen others do, and this is my practical testing-based opinion, and of course, everyone has their own, and we know what those are like... Clipping is also bad on crossover networks, moreover the type found in home two or three way speakers. As I eluded to in the beginning, I don't waste money on car audio, so I don't have these sorts of problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindingForester Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Sorry, I still disagree with you. Clipping, when it gets to a certain point is not a square wave, it's almost getting to the point of a DC voltage. This makes the speaker work almost like a solenoid, pulling it in one direction, and then it becomes as you said, a fuse. I can only go by what I have done and seen others do, and this is my practical testing-based opinion, and of course, everyone has their own, and we know what those are like... Clipping is also bad on crossover networks, moreover the type found in home two or three way speakers. As I eluded to in the beginning, I don't waste money on car audio, so I don't have these sorts of problems. Well, you're spreading misinformation. Clipping is not DC, and it doesn't make the speaker "work almost like a solenoid." Period. I can only go by what I know about loudspeakers and how they fail. Bob Lee 2005 Forester XS; 13,000+ miles 1988 VW Golf GL; 243,000+ miles Costa Mesa, California Previous Subes: 1992 Legacy L station wagon (sideswiped; totaled) 1995 Legacy LS station wagon (head-on; totaled) 1998 Forester L (rear ended; totaled) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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