abeauch Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 I started having an intermittent rough idle and hesitation recently. I was curious as to why my cel had not lit up. I checked for the cel while turning the ignition to on and sure enough the cel did not illumunate. Stopped by Autozone this morning and using the Acton code reader 11 codes were listed. Both O2 sensors had circuitry errors, there was an air metering code, speed sensor, and numerous manufacturer codes. The guy at autozone said he could't read them because they were in the thousands and his reader would only go to the 800's. Does anyone have any idea whats happening here? I'm getting 19 mpg with a low idle (450 rpm 's) but the car runs good other than the intermittent idle issue. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Boncyk Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 I suspect that either you have a generic harness/connector issue, or you have a bad ECU. The likelihood of all those things failing and throwing codes at the same time is pretty slim -- and your poor mileage probably reflects the "default" limp-along config that the engine is put into when the ECU can't control things properly any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2X2KOB Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Perhaps you should try reading the codes again with a different type code reader, or disconnecting the battery for awhile to reset the ECU. I'd be interested to know what happens if you try these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abeauch Posted April 26, 2006 Author Share Posted April 26, 2006 Perhaps you should try reading the codes again with a different type code reader, or disconnecting the battery for awhile to reset the ECU. I'd be interested to know what happens if you try these things. I had disconnected the battery for at least 45 minutes to an hour and had the codes read again. Same results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2X2KOB Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 No easy fix, then. Scratch that plan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Boncyk Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 I still think it's the ECU, or some problem in the harness/connectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Boncyk Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Do you have the numeric values of those codes "in the thousands" that you mentioned? That info would help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abeauch Posted April 26, 2006 Author Share Posted April 26, 2006 Do you have the numeric values of those codes "in the thousands" that you mentioned? That info would help. No, the reader he was using was not capable of displaying a number that high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abeauch Posted April 27, 2006 Author Share Posted April 27, 2006 I started having an intermittent rough idle and hesitation recently. I was curious as to why my cel had not lit up. I checked for the cel while turning the ignition to on and sure enough the cel did not illumunate. Stopped by Autozone this morning and using the Acton code reader 11 codes were listed. Both O2 sensors had circuitry errors, there was an air metering code, speed sensor, and numerous manufacturer codes. The guy at autozone said he could't read them because they were in the thousands and his reader would only go to the 800's. Does anyone have any idea whats happening here? I'm getting 19 mpg with a low idle (450 rpm 's) but the car runs good other than the intermittent idle issue. Thanks Does anyone have anymore input on this problem. I could really use some advice on what direction to go. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2X2KOB Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 If it was mine, I think I'd like to see what ALL the codes were. Next, I'd get the wiring diagram, and make sure the wiring between the OBDII port and the ECU was good. If that wiring checked out, then I'd probably get a junkyard ECU to swap in and see what happens. Like Wayne said, that's too many codes to be believed, and the fact that they don't go away when the battery is disconnected also points toward a funky ECU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 I'm suspicious of the scanner. Aren't a lot of codes well over 1000 ? I'd get a different place to scan the codes and make sure the scanner is OBDII ISO compliant/whatever is the protocol for Subaru. Plus, sometimes 1-2 fairly simple problems can create multiple codes. Almost any severe air/fuel issue can cause misfire codes for instance. Doen't mean the spark plugs are bad. Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abeauch Posted April 28, 2006 Author Share Posted April 28, 2006 If it was mine, I think I'd like to see what ALL the codes were. Next, I'd get the wiring diagram, and make sure the wiring between the OBDII port and the ECU was good. If that wiring checked out, then I'd probably get a junkyard ECU to swap in and see what happens. Like Wayne said, that's too many codes to be believed, and the fact that they don't go away when the battery is disconnected also points toward a funky ECU. I wanted to give a small update to the problem. I replaced the bulb for the check engine light. There was no bulb in the socket. Someone obviously removed it because they got tired of seeing it on. After resetting the ecm I am now able to see the CEL flashing which leads me to believe I have a wire, coil, or igniter problem. Ignition related anyways. I started changing the plugs today, What a job! I found it easier to work from under the car. I was able to replace three of the plugs but the plug wire boot broke off and I can't get a socket over the plug to remove it. I placed the old boot over the old plug and took the car for a ride. What a difference in performance. I found the old plugs were denso and not platinum. They were worn but not fouled. I installed the bosch 2's and there is a significant increase in acceleration and power. I need to get the last one out soon. They ran great when the engine wasn't missing. Am I rigth to go the direction of an ignition problem. Could this cause some of my many codes. Thanks for any comments and suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnVT Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 well, somebody will say it - if you read this forum much, you'll find many people recommend ONLY using NGK plugs and OEM wires. I was planning to call Burlington Subaru tomorrow to find a set for my 97 OBW, because I think the Belden wires I bought a while ago are causing some of my 'rough' running problems. So, even though it's doing MUCH better now, it may not last. Having said that, others will disagree, and the proof is in what works for you. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abeauch Posted April 28, 2006 Author Share Posted April 28, 2006 well, somebody will say it - if you read this forum much, you'll find many people recommend ONLY using NGK plugs and OEM wires. I was planning to call Burlington Subaru tomorrow to find a set for my 97 OBW, because I think the Belden wires I bought a while ago are causing some of my 'rough' running problems. So, even though it's doing MUCH better now, it may not last. Having said that, others will disagree, and the proof is in what works for you. Good luck. Hi JohnVT, thanks for the reply. We live somewhat close, I' from Essex Ctr Vt. I See yor from Hinesburgh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abeauch Posted April 28, 2006 Author Share Posted April 28, 2006 Just another update if any one cares. I seem to be making most of these posts myself. I ohmed out all the plug wires. One wire was reading 30k ohms. The others were in spec. Purchased a new set and now my idle is smooth (still low) and accelleration is much better with no bucking. I still have out of spec readings on my coil pack. Resistance is low compared to values in the haynes manual. Still have the blinking CEL also. I also checked the gas cap. Would the coil pak cause this problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Just another update if any one cares. I seem to be making most of these posts myself. I ohmed out all the plug wires. One wire was reading 30k ohms. The others were in spec. Purchased a new set and now my idle is smooth (still low) and accelleration is much better with no bucking. I still have out of spec readings on my coil pack. Resistance is low compared to values in the haynes manual. Still have the blinking CEL also. I also checked the gas cap. Would the coil pak cause this problem? Probably not the coilpack if idel is smooth (although, it would be a good idea to check under other conditions and rpms). Did you try to clear the ECU after the plugs/wires change-out? If the car has been missing/running poorly for a llong time, catalytic converter could be bad caussing the rear O2 sensor to detect bad cat efficiancy I guess. has this car had an oiled intake filter (K7N-type)? Could be a bad MAF sensor - really need to read the codes. I dunno Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abeauch Posted April 28, 2006 Author Share Posted April 28, 2006 Probably not the coilpack if idel is smooth (although, it would be a good idea to check under other conditions and rpms). Did you try to clear the ECU after the plugs/wires change-out? If the car has been missing/running poorly for a llong time, catalytic converter could be bad caussing the rear O2 sensor to detect bad cat efficiancy I guess. has this car had an oiled intake filter (K7N-type)? Could be a bad MAF sensor - really need to read the codes. I dunno Carl Car only started doing this recently, Tried clearing the codes but the flashing CEL is there as soon as I start the car. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendly_jacek Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 flashing MIL/CEL means serious and continous emission problem, posibly leading to damage of engine or cat. I would not drive it before fixing the problem. Sounds like the car was much neglected and with no maintanance whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abeauch Posted April 29, 2006 Author Share Posted April 29, 2006 I thought I would share the simple fix to my complex problem with everyone on the message board. One thing I forgot to mention was when I turned my ignition to on the engine compartment would come alive with clicks, and buzzes and fans whirring. I thought this kind of odd like the Autozone guy said "I've never heard an engine do that before?" What I recalled is with the obdi vehicles there is a jumper you connect and a mode you enter that that does this same thing. It is a diagnostic mode. I found a green connector connected under the dash that places these cars into a diagnostic mode. I simply unplugged the connector and no more flashing light, no more cel at all. Took the car for a ride and it ran fine. Idle is still not to spec but is smooth. Not a big worry for me right now. I may at some point replace the coil. So to some up my fix: 1. New plugs, Bosch 2's.. so far they run great. 2. New plug wires from Bond Auto, Made by Power Max 3. Unplugged the diagnostic connector. Thanks to those who took the time to reply to my post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2X2KOB Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Thanks for the update - glad you got it figured out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 I didn't know a 98 had those connecters! Is it an alternative way to read out the codes like the old style blink numbers? Anyway - cool your car is doing better. Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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