UMT Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Hello Forum! I know this subject has been talked about in the past but maybe it's a good subject to visit again due to the high price of unleaded gas. My current Subaru is a 99 Impreza Outback Sport with 140, 000 miles on it and still runs like new! I recently visited my brother who is a farmer and lives in 'farmer land', of course. It was dark and I stopped in the closest little town to his house to fill up and mistakenly filled the tank with E85. Ye Olde 99 Subaru Outback Sport never missed a lick. Ran like a champ! I sell RV's on a seasonal basis and ran into a old timer at the dealership yesterday who was considering a Class A or Class C motorcoach and we got to talking about gas. He was a rather eccentric older fellow but he really knew his stuff about E85. (Way more than I did) He says that in order to run E85, a vehicle needs a bit larger fuel injector nozzles as what it really does is clean out any deposits,etc. that may be in your lines, tanks, etc. and will foul injectors and possibly plug up fuel filters. He also mentioned that it has a higher octane rating (110? apx) and may cause a non E85 car to idle a little fast. (Which means you may have to hold the ole Subaru back if sitting at a stop lite with a automatic transmission) He said he had experimented a little bit with his non E85 certified vehicle and found the best way for him was to put 5 gallons of unleaded gas in the tank and then fill it up the rest of the way with E85. E85 is selling for about $2.00 per gallon around here compared to $2.90 for regular unleaded so obviously, I thinking of running some more thru the Sport... Anybody have any experience with running mass quantities of E85 thru the older Subaru's???? Thanks, UMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 This has been popping up alot lately. E85's additional cost on the assembly line to any vehical is 200.00. e85 gives you 30% LESS fuel mileage. http://www.fueleconomy.org/feg/byfuel/FFV2002.shtml E85 has a lower specific heat, hence the lower gas mileage, and also may cause a comfort issue in winter. E85 all the rubber hoses and some plastic parts have to be changed. The fuel injectors need larger ports and the ECU neds to be re calibrated. The fuel system needs to be scrubbed clean or replaced, since e85 is a strong solvent and loves water. RIght now e85 is available at about 500 stations, supposedly will increase to 2500, but i doubt it. The pipeline owners refuse to let e85 be pumped since it loves water and eats standard rubber. the fuel has to be trucked. Also e85 is only about a dime cheaper then gasoline. Gasoline does many things beutifully which cant be replicated (yet). It is clean due to computers and refining methods. Easy to store and pump. Oil comes out of the ground fairly easily. the refining process once started does not use alot of energy, since the waste products of the refinng are used to process the raw product and power the refineries. E85 requires fuel (a still) to make it. People are working on biological ways to make ethanol, but they haven't hit the big time yet. Even with this, it still has to be trucked. It is going to be hard to convince people to have new pipelines in thier backyards next to the old ones, since many dont even know the old ones are already there. A TRUE carberator (no emission controls at all) can be re jetted to run on e85 or pure ethanol. This puts us back to pre 1973 vehicals. SOme cars can be converted, but that is because they have almost all the parts already from the factory http://xcelplus.com/e85/step1.htm . Its the same as the factory AC kits, all you needed was the compressor a few hoses and the control panel. From the ethanol people themselves http://www.iogen.ca/company/faq/index.html#Q19 Can I convert my car to run on E-85 fuel? It is too impractical and costly to do after-factory conversions of gasoline fueled vehicles to E-85 vehicles. Since the combustion of ethanol and gasoline is different, different engine electronic systems are required, and need to be installed at the time of manufacture. http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/faqs/conversion.php The differences in fuel injector size, air-fuel ratio, PCM calibrations, material composition of the fuel lines, pumps and tanks are just a few of the components that contribute to making an E85 conversion extremely complex. Additionally, the production of vehicles by auto manufacturers that are capable of operating on unleaded gasoline or E85 (flexible fuel vehicles) at little or no additional cost over the gasoline only model, provide little incentive for a conversion company to undertake the very expensive and time consuming task of aftermarket certification. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMT Posted May 7, 2006 Author Share Posted May 7, 2006 Nipper, Hey, thanks for the info and all the links! Guess that answers that question, huh? One thing I'm wondering about though: if enthanol is so corrosive, how come you don't have the same problems using E10? Near alot of bigger cities, that's all you can get! Obviously, it would take alot longer than E85 but still..................... UMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 e10 cars have been required to be able to burn since then 1980's. Its diluted by the gasoline so its not that bad. To be on the safe side most rubber can withstand up to 20% of ethanol. And its chemistry, not one of my favorite subjects. less is more and too much eats things up. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Good info, nipper--thanks. Starting April 1st of this year all gasoline sold in Hawaii had to, by law, contain 10% ethanol. When it was announced, I was quite concerned about how it would affect my engine's running ('95 Legacy L) and milage. Have only been through a couple of tanks full but performance seems fine. Jury is still out on the mpg--just hope there are no unpleasant surprises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 see thats what i dont get about all of a sudden the price rise due to 90/10 ethanol. It's been around since the late 80's then MBE came along, now back to ethanol. Arent monopolies grand. Im surprised that the price doesnt go up due to the increased gravitational pull by the moon during the day on the oil pumps. Or did i say too much? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Im surprised that the price doesnt go up due to the increased gravitational pull by the moon during the day on the oil pumps. nipper Gads, I hope there are no Hawaii legislators on this board! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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