belizeanbus Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Is it possible to get the driver's side head off without removing the EA82 from my Loyale? It looks cramped on that side. I haven't taken much time for troubleshooting yet, but my newly installed motor was pouring oil in a steady stream from that side, and I wonder if that little o-ring between the head and the cam tower didn't slip out during reassambly...If I get that far, and can't find the problem, I may have to take off the head for a new gasket (it's also blowing white smoke after it's been running a bit)... Any suggestions? belizeanbus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdjdc Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 It can be done, but it is easier to take the time and pull the engine. You will fight and curse alot with the engine in the car. The whitesmoke could be the headgasket or an intake leak. best to pull the motor and re-install the headgasket on that side. Was this engine overheated? If so, I would replace that head as well. It is probably cracked. Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 It can be done with the engine in the car. I didn't think it was too difficult on my XT. Certainly saved a lot of time. The hardest part is pulling the valve cover off. Just get one of those ratcheting hand wrenches. Those things are perfect for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I found it a huge frustration on my XT, so half way thought I gave up and pulled the engine. Afterwards I thought that it might have been easier if I had unbolted the motor mounts and jacked the engine up to get some room for my fat hands... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I found it a huge frustration on my XT, so half way thought I gave up and pulled the engine. Afterwards I thought that it might have been easier if I had unbolted the motor mounts and jacked the engine up to get some room for my fat hands... THAT is a great idea. a simple halfway pull of the motor... could headgasket jobs be done this way?? i mean, it sure seems like it to me.. instead of pulling the motor entirely... just as a hypothetical.. your idea seems like one of those obvious ones that may have been missed by other minds than yours.. i sure never thought of it, nor have i heard it suggested, that i can recall.... In reality, I may be doing a five speed swap soon anyhow.. in which case, i will re seal the engine then, and just pull it out. im going to have it all unbolted anyhow, may as well take the opportunity to detail the engine bay. "opportunity." i just came up with six more things to do on that job. i cant find time for it already. good thinking. O well, it was a good idea on the motor "half removal" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 THAT is a great idea....your idea seems like one of those obvious ones that may have been missed by other minds than yours.. i sure never thought of it... I hadn't thought of it either... not until after the frustration and a month of time passed. Came after I had to lift a Legacy engine off of its mounts to get at the torque converter bolts (thanks GD!!!). Inspiration/enlightenment occurs at odd times... like when you are dirty, sweating, and cursing. I will get to try this method pretty soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 pulling the motor is not the quickest way to do it. i find pulling a motor very annoying. easy and straight forward, but it's annoying. there are only two tricks to doing this in the car and they are very simple. a 10mm ratcheting wrench and some grease. that's it. i've done this multiple times on the XT6 (6 cylinder) so it's even tighter and has more bolts...still easy though. here is the only hard part...getting started. get a ratcheting 10mm wrench. this will allow you to pull the valve cover bolts the easiest. the drivers side is a complete pain with a normal wrench because sockets won't fit and ujoint adapters don't work. have to use a wrench. a regular wrench = big time annoying. a ratcheting wrench = easy. makes all the difference. do not do this without having a ratcheting wrench. you'll need some high quality grease to hold the rocker arms on the heads when you reassemble the cam towers. the arms will just fall off otherwise. use grease to hold them in place while you install the cam tower. once the valve covers are off ALL of the cam tower and head bolts come out VERY EASY. there is plenty of room. the valve covers are the only tight spot. (unless you have a turbo motor then there's lots of tight items, but they're in the way even if yo'ure pulling the motor). if you want to save time, air tools are the key. once the valve covers are off, there's plenty of room to use air tools to remove all the cam and head bolts. to save time having air tools is the key. there are alot of cam tower and head bolts. and to properly do a head gasket you should be running bolts down and back each head bolt hole to clean it out a few times. very time consuming with hand tools. very fast with air tools...but be careful of course on aluminum threads either way. every EA82 and ER27 i've done was very easy to do in the car...and out of the car. but pulling a motor is annoying, all those hoses, wires, throttle cables, torque converter bolts, clutch parts, engine mounts, radiator hoses, heater hoses, lining stuff up, angling the engine properly. it gets easier after you've done it a couple times which i have, but there's no way that pulling the motor saves any time on a head gasket job. good luck and have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 ... but there's no way that pulling the motor saves any time on a head gasket job... Must have a young back! I didn't try a ratcheting wrench on mine; but I do recall having some issues because of the ATF lines made things more crowded. Doesn't help to have hands like Mickey Mouse (except with 5 digits). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I have to agree with Gary - I rarely pull the engine for head gaskets - and I own a cherry picker. I too use ratcheting wrenches whenever possible, and as he says it's near impossible and totally frustrating to get the valve covers off on the EA82 without one. You guys think EA82's are annoying.... on the EA81 you have to fish the rocker arm bolts through holes in the frame to get them out. But on the whole, the EA82 is worse as you have to deal with cam towers and timing belts and junk. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Must have a young back! true and the air tools help a ton. you spend much less time working a bolt with air tools. add up all the head bolts and cam bolts and that's alot...even more on the XT6. and if you're cleaning the holes properly...you can spend alot of time huncing over for sure. air tools make the biggest difference. but i can see where all that hunching over could be painful. i had to drill a bolt out of an engine not too long ago, that was not fun and i felt it in the lower back after all that time working that thing. welding, turning, drilling, extracting....blah blah blah... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 ...meticulously cleaning the block surface, including around the locating dowels... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belizeanbus Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 Thanks for all of the suggestions... Not sure if I should post a new thread, but it's all related, so I'll try here first. Does anyone have any idea what the issue I am up against is (the reason for wanting to get at the heads while in the car in the first place)? When I fire this thing up and let her run a bit, she starts billowing white smoke (coolant, I surmise), and there is a very obvious leak coming from the driver side cylinder head. My first guess was that the small o-ring was not doing its job. I think it is VERY unlikely that I forgot it when reassembling, but I guess it could always have fallen un-noticed when I was putting it all together. Next guess: the head is not properly torqued, and I can just go in that far, and re-torque them. I can't think of any other explanation, and I'm not even sure that the two symptoms are related. Any educated guesses? thanks, belizeanbus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 The o-ring is for the oil passage - nothing to do with coolant. Retorque should only be needed with OEM HG's, and even then it's after a break in period. It sounds like maybe you didn't get the manifold on tight - if you don't get them sealed properly they will leak into the intake and burn just like you describe. Also they will leak sometimes around the gasket and into the spark plug areas - there are drain holes in the heads where the coolant will run down underneath and look like it's leaking from the bottom. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belizeanbus Posted August 21, 2006 Author Share Posted August 21, 2006 Thanks for the tip. I think I'm working with two different issues here. I think the first one was solved with your advice. I re-torqued the intake manifold on that side, and I am no longer burning coolant. However, what is leaking from below is definitely oil. Looks upon further inspection that it is coming from the valve cover gasket. All five bolts are properly torqued. I wonder what the problem is. I tried tightening them a bit beyond spec, and that had no effect. Basically, there is a steady stream of oil once the engine gets running. Comes out of the back, below the disty, and collects on the sheet metal plate that separates the head from the axle. I'd say it would put out a good quart every couple of minutes if left to run. When the engine is shut off, it continues to drain for about 30 seconds. Is there that much oil going under that valve covers? I wonder if I am not missing the source of the oil. Does anyone use these fluorescent additives for tracing oil leaks with any success? I think my next step is to replace the valve cover gasket, but this one was a new OEM, so I am still a bit confused... belizeanbus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Is it possible that the oil leak is coming from the cam-carrier/head joint rather than the cam-cover gasket? If so, what sealant did you use on this joint? That much oil is a major leak. Did the cam-cover gasket slip off while putiing the cover back on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Did you clean the groove on the cam carrier mating surface of all the old sealant and apply about a bit less than a 1/8" bead of RTV to the groove? Sounds like either that, or the o-ring slipped and got wedged in there or something. The cover itself should not leak unless it's not seated properly - but if all the bolts are in then that's unlikely. At this point if you can't see the source clearly, get some castrol super clean (purple bottle) and degrease the whole area. Then run it and see what you find. Oh and in reposnse to your question on quantity, yes - that much oil is definately present. I've run them without the cover in place (diagnostic situation) and you need a catch pan for all the oil. It makes a HUGE mess if you don't. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 if you installed a new gasket, it probably got "kinked" while you were installing it. check right where the oil is coming out, see if you can tell that the gasket is pinched inside the valve cover. this is my guess. or you reused an old gasket that needs replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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