SilverSeraphim Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 I have a 2002 Impreza 2.5RS and it's currently tossing misfire codes for all 4 cylinders as well as a O2 sensor code, but that could just be due to the misfires. Lately it's been acting like this: If I drive like a girl, shift at 3-4000 rpms and generally don't put any stress on the car, it acts ok. But as soon as I try to actually drive, revving up higher and hard acceleration, it starts losing power after 5-10 minutes. It begins to hard idle and to get going from a stopped position I have to rev up past 3000 rpms so that I don't stall. While driving in say 4th gear, I can slowly push the pedal down more and more without much noticable acceleration gain, though it does start to chug (sometimes so hard that the tachometer visibly bounces). When I finally get the pedal to the floor, something goes right and I can accelerate, but the acceleration I get is about what I should get from having hte pedal HALF way down, not ALL the way down. I just bought new spark plugs and wires, and I'm going to put them in this week. I already tried getting a bottle of Fuel Injector Cleaner that you mix with your gas, and that didn't seem to help at all. If these new plugs and wires don't fix my misfires, it's got to be either that O2 sensor or the injectors right? Any insight, or ideas would be helpful. =] Thanks. - Silver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 make sure you're using Subaru only plug wires. dont' use any aftermarkets (magnecor are the only aftermarket options that are good, but most don't get those). i'd be suspicious of the coil pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSeraphim Posted October 2, 2006 Author Share Posted October 2, 2006 I got Duralas wires from Autozone, and they say "Vehicle specific design for reliable performance" so I think I'm good. =] I'm sorry, "coil pack"? I haven't heard that term before. Could you explain what that is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 I got Duralas wires from Autozone, and they say "Vehicle specific design for reliable performance" so I think I'm good. =]they will not cut it. maybe temporarily, but they are far from the best choice i can promise you that. throw everything you know about engines out the door when you're talking about EJ series spark plugs, these motors are not forgiving. any other Subaru motor will run fine on whatever. you do not want to use anything but Subaru spark plug wires on an EJ series engine (EJ22, EJ25). if you do install them, i'd plan to replace them very soon. better off just returning them, get your money back and getting Subaru. if you don't know this engine very well, it is in your best interest to heed my advice. spark plug wires are spark plug wires.....for everything but the EJ series engine that is in your vehicle. these motors are not forgiving at all. i'll quit my rambling, but i am certainly not suggesting this for kicks or as a matter of oppinion...well except to say my oppinion is that spark plug wires that don't last very long are a bad thing. the coil pack is the little box that all the spark plug wires connect too. since a cylinder mis-fire is almost always ignition related, you have 4 mis-fire codes and all 4 spark plugs connect to the coil pack, it sounds like that's a good place to look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 on a side note, has any work been done recently, any accidents, anything prior to this starting? or it just all started happening randomly? worse when it's raining? is your charging system okay...alternator and batter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSeraphim Posted October 2, 2006 Author Share Posted October 2, 2006 on a side note, has any work been done recently, any accidents, anything prior to this starting? or it just all started happening randomly? worse when it's raining? is your charging system okay...alternator and batter? So do you think I am better off to replace the plugs, but keep the wires that are already in there? I don't know if they are Subaru wires or not, is there a marking on them that can identify them as Subaru or not? *sigh* I suppose I better get an ohmmeter and test the old wires rather than put in these ones then. What about the plugs I got? You think Bosch Platinum plugs will be ok or should I just take my car in to Subaru and let them work on it. I hate to give up in the middle of this, cause Subaru doesn't exactly do work for cheap, but it seems I might have to. If my EJ25 is really that sensitive, I don't wanna F it up. I guess I'll go ahead and make an appointment. I think this is a bigger problem than I am going to be able to fix. As for your other question. I have had a new clutch put in 2 weeks ago, but this problem was happening before that. Over th past month it's been increasing in regularity. About 6 months ago it would happen once in a blue moon, then go away for a month. About 2 months ago it would happen a few times a week. Now it happens everyday. It doesn't seem to be any better or worse whether it is raining or not, and as far as I know my charging system is fine. I haven't had any trouble with my battery or alternator, but honestly I haven't exactly been watching for it either. - Silver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 You can still install them yourself, buy them from the dealer. i'd never recommend letting the dealer do something that simple. many subaru addicts highly recommend sticking with NGK plugs. those you can get anywhere, you don't have to go to Subaru . but that's not nearly as critical as the wires, the Bosch you likely wouldn't have any problems with. if the plugs and wires don't help, swap in another coil pack, it is very very easy to replace. it's the little box that all your spark plugs plug into. i think it only requires removing 2 or 3 bolts and it comes off. very easy to do and easy to find. post in the Market Place forum here and someone probably has a used one you can buy for cheap. i would at least try that before taking it to a mechanic...that is, if the plugs and wires don't help. actually swapping in another coil pack is easier than changing the plugs and wires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Mmph, my car has duralast plug wires and Bosch Plat 4's and it drives like a bat out of hell. All that stuff is over a year old and my car still runs top notch for 153k miles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Keep in mind Duralast means company who bid the lowest. If plug wires happen to make a good connection on your car more power to you. The problem is that if you install them every day you need consistant top quality and you rarely get that from inexpensive auto parts house brands. I have had to spend more time fixing the wires poor connections before installation and having to test them to see if they are too loose. If you do a job twice you make no profit. On my Subaru I use factory wires and NGK stock plugs becuse there is no time in my life to screw around with something like this. If you have a lot of time and enjoy trying new stuff more power to you. When my car reecently went in for a third party smog inspection the mechanic remarked on how well maintained it was and what low emissions it puts out. It's all stock equipment on this car and it works very well. I don't sy you have to use everything stock but these cars are sensitive to plugs and wires, frankly the ox sensors are also a pain to use aftermarket with. After market thermostats are also trouble. I do have a non stock air cleaner, brakes, shocks, oil and filter, fuel filter, etc., but these items are not that picky on brand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Mmph, my car has duralast plug wires and Bosch Plat 4's and it drives like a bat out of hell. All that stuff is over a year old and my car still runs top notch for 153k miles. but u have a EJ22 right? He has a EJ25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSeraphim Posted October 2, 2006 Author Share Posted October 2, 2006 Alright, well I'm gonna try putting in the new plugs and wires. They aren't that expensive and at least it will help me figure out what the problem is. Then I'll clear the codes and see if it tosses those errors again. If it does, I'll try another coil pack. Hopefully it won't come to replacing the fuel injectors, but I've got a bad feeling about that O2 sensor. =[ An O2 sensor error can be a side effect of my exhaust being too rich due to the misfires right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 there could be an O2 issue there but i doubt it. i think you'll find the new ignition goodies or the coil pack will solve your problems and yes that may take care of a residual O2 sensor code. you are right to focus on one problem at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSeraphim Posted October 2, 2006 Author Share Posted October 2, 2006 Ok, well I'll see if I can find time to get those new plugs and wires in tomorrow. I'll let you guys know how it turns out, thanks for all the help. =] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 depending on how soon you were going to try and install your plugs and wires, you might consider buying on line. i paid 60$ local for subaru wires, and apparently they can be had for 45 / 48$ on line. but i didn't want to wait. a chain service center here (va) quoted 250$ for plugs and wires, 105$ for parts and 145$ for labor. way too much for my taste. search for plugs and/or wires and you'll find some good tips on doing it yourself. it may take a little while to do but is dooable and is worht it. i had to buy an extention set for my ratchet to get it done and still saved over 150$. good luck and let us know how it turns out. Ok, well I'll see if I can find time to get those new plugs and wires in tomorrow. I'll let you guys know how it turns out, thanks for all the help. =] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSeraphim Posted October 3, 2006 Author Share Posted October 3, 2006 Ok, I got major issues now. I decided on a whim to check my oil and it was WAY too low. So I refilled it and started looking for a leak. And I think I found it. I was pulling out the wires and the boot at the end of the wire going to the #1 plug was covered in oil. Now I'm no expert, but I'm positive that oil is NOT supposed to be there. I think it's more likely that THAT is my problem, than that all four spark plugs are bad. This is turning into a huge mess. I think before this is over I'm going to have to take my engine apart. =[ Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana105 Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 I would wait for some advice from the board here before tearing into your engine,not to say you don't have the capability,but there are things to look for before tearing an engine down,specifically a compression test on all cylinders,and as mentioned in previous posts don't count out your coil pack,you may have a cylinder not firing properly or a spark plug not set right causing oil blow by so many things to check before going the engine route. By the way how many miles on the engine? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 sounds like you need valve cover gaskets and plug seals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 slow down hotdog. a little (or a lot) of oil leaks isn't a big deal. millions of cars are leaking oil right now, not a big deal. if it showed up really low on your dipstick....that's not really as low as you'd think. if it's showing up on your dipstick you're probably 1 quart or less low, that's not a big deal. even at the bottom of the stick you still have plenty of oil in there to prevent any engine damage. now...it is imperative to add some oil. take note - the distance between the full mark and the other mark at the bottom of the stick is one quart - add accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 And temperature makes a big difference on my car. It shows more hot if Ilet it drain down to the pan. That oil on the plug could certainly make it skip though, but it is a fairly easy fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 Siver Sera, Don't panic just yet. Clean the oil away fromyour plug sockets and as you work on replacement of your plugs and wires. Also. look for corrosion on the contacts in the coil pack wher you will plug in your new wires. When you are done, clear your codes and drive the car. When the CEL comes back on scan it and post the results. Regardless, PLEASE keep us informed of your progress (or set backs). Cookie said "sounds like you need valve cover gaskets and plug seals". What "plug seals" are you referring to, Cook? Mike V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 the plugs in the 2.5 engine thread into the head through a hole in the valve cover. so there is not only a gasket around the perimeter of the valve cover there is a circular gasket around the "hole" in the valve cover that allows the plug to reach the head. some one in a similar thread just in the last few days posted a picture of one. Siver Sera, Don't panic just yet. Clean the oil away fromyour plug sockets and as you work on replacement of your plugs and wires. Also. look for corrosion on the contacts in the coil pack wher you will plug in your new wires. When you are done, clear your codes and drive the car. When the CEL comes back on scan it and post the results. Regardless, PLEASE keep us informed of your progress (or set backs). Cookie said "sounds like you need valve cover gaskets and plug seals". What "plug seals" are you referring to, Cook? Mike V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 Thanks Johnc. Makes sense. And it would make sense that this is where Silver's leak is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSeraphim Posted October 4, 2006 Author Share Posted October 4, 2006 Thanks for all the input guys. I really appreciate it. grossgary - Yeah, it was at the very bottom of the dipstick, so I went ahead and filled it back up. montana105 - Where can I get the right tools to do a compression test? Should I rent that from Autozone or what? Should that be the first step, or should I put in the new plugs and wires first? cookie - My friend said that same thing and said that he'd help me check those while putting in the new plugs and wires. =] Mikevan10 - Good idea, I'll check the contacts for the coil pack when putting on the new wires. I'll clean up that oil at the same time. FYI: My Check Engine Light does NOT work. Before I bought this car used, someone (previous owner or dealer) clipped the light/diode/LED/whatever it is off of the board so I don't know when it's tossing errors except to stop at Autozone and ask them to pull errors (which is free luckily). Subaru wanted over $500 to put in a new board and I said no way. Thanks for all the advice guys. It's making a huge difference and is really helpful. Please let me know if there's anything else I should know or be doing. I'll keep you posted as things turn out. I'll be working with my buddy Thursday afternoon to put in the new plugs and wires, so we'll see what we find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 you can probably pick up a used instrument cluster for cheap. wouldn't that solve the CEL problem?? Thanks for all the input guys. I really appreciate it. grossgary - Yeah, it was at the very bottom of the dipstick, so I went ahead and filled it back up. montana105 - Where can I get the right tools to do a compression test? Should I rent that from Autozone or what? Should that be the first step, or should I put in the new plugs and wires first? cookie - My friend said that same thing and said that he'd help me check those while putting in the new plugs and wires. =] Mikevan10 - Good idea, I'll check the contacts for the coil pack when putting on the new wires. I'll clean up that oil at the same time. FYI: My Check Engine Light does NOT work. Before I bought this car used, someone (previous owner or dealer) clipped the light/diode/LED/whatever it is off of the board so I don't know when it's tossing errors except to stop at Autozone and ask them to pull errors (which is free luckily). Subaru wanted over $500 to put in a new board and I said no way. Thanks for all the advice guys. It's making a huge difference and is really helpful. Please let me know if there's anything else I should know or be doing. I'll keep you posted as things turn out. I'll be working with my buddy Thursday afternoon to put in the new plugs and wires, so we'll see what we find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSeraphim Posted October 4, 2006 Author Share Posted October 4, 2006 you can probably pick up a used instrument cluster for cheap. wouldn't that solve the CEL problem?? Which board is the CEL on? Someone told me I might be able to solder a new one on. Since it's just the little bulb thing that's clipped off (with a pliers or wire cutter). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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