MaximusGradient Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 First off, I tried searching the forums for a problem similar to mine, but couldn't really find anything...so here's an explanation of the problem. A few weeks ago I purchased a used 2000 Legacy L wagon from Carmax (I know, probably not the best choice for a dealer but I needed a cheap used car fast) knowing that it had a clutch shudder problem. They told me it would be fully covered at no charge under the 30 day warranty, so I went ahead and bought it thinking they could just fix it and everything would be bueno. It wasn't a cold clutch shudder/judder problem like most other people experience. In fact, the shuddering was less violent when the car was cold. It would shudder when starting from a dead stop in 1st, but it would also shudder violently when letting the clutch out while downshifting during braking/deceleration. This shuddering would get worse as the vehicle warmed up. Also, the clutch peddle would develop a lot of play as it warmed up, and it got to the point that I could press the peddle down halfway easily with my hand. Well, I dropped it off last week and apparently they resurfaced the flywheel and replaced the clutch assembly. Got the car back last Friday and the clutch still shudders, but now it shudders more violently than before when starting from a stop in 1st, yet oddly enough it shudders less violently while downshifting during braking. I talked to the mechanic who worked on it today, and he told me the clutch needs a break-in period and the shudder will go away, and as far as the peddle developing play he said that's normal. All that seems like BS to me...if you put a new clutch in it shouldn't shudder anymore, and a clutch peddle shouldn't change pressures no matter what. So, any thoughts on what is causing this shudder and/or peddle play? I have some theories, but I'll wait to see what you guys think...Thanks! Sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subeman90 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 There is a TSB for that year car. Take it to a subaru dealer and talk to them about it....especially if you have a new clutch in it otherwise you are going to ruin the new one too. Been here and done this before.... (2002 Outback) Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subeman90 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 from this site: http://www.nhtsa.com/portal/site/nhtsa/menuitem.9fa154a4d39f02e770f6df1020008a0c/;jsessionid=F1LETMy2PJFj1p1A9itOaNyhiGGN2IP2vzPrqrQzlnSWfVTlY20B!-1058166001 there are TSB's that are in regards to the clutch. The one that stands out to me is: nhtsa# 10001726 service bulitin: 035203 Keep in mind these are vague descriptions on the internet but there is a SB about the clutch out there so consult the subaru dealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 A few issues, first off is that if i remeber correctly subaru flywheels dont like being resurfaced, as they are already pretty thin. Secondly look at the TSB's on this issue. The other thing is the clutch slave/master cylinder. The fact the clutch play changes as the car warms up tells me there is an issue someplace in the hydraulic clutch. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusGradient Posted October 27, 2006 Author Share Posted October 27, 2006 Yeah, replacing the slave cylinder is actually tonight's big project. We're hoping that will fix all the problems including the shudder, but if not I'll just have to take it back and throw some TSBs in their faces and make sure they fix it properly this time. I never knew Subaru flywheels were thin, that's good to know... Thanks for the suggestions/info guys, keep them coming if you have more! Sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 I followed the TSB and replaced the slave and hoses. I still did not have enough pressure and replaced the master. Fine now for a coule of year. As far as your shudder goes the linkage is unlikly to affect it and it may not go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusGradient Posted November 1, 2006 Author Share Posted November 1, 2006 Replaced the slave cylinder and that fixed the pedal pressure issue, but the shudder is still there. I had a buddy who's a Subaru mechanic drive it around and he said there's something definitely wrong. Since it's Carmax they offer this 30-day warranty to everybody, so I'm sure they just skipped out on a lot of parts and lied to me about the new clutch assembly and whatnot. I'm taking the car back in this week and I'm making sure they replace everything and get it working properly. Hopefully this will be the end of it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Replaced the slave cylinder and that fixed the pedal pressure issue, but the shudder is still there. I had a buddy who's a Subaru mechanic drive it around and he said there's something definitely wrong. Since it's Carmax they offer this 30-day warranty to everybody, so I'm sure they just skipped out on a lot of parts and lied to me about the new clutch assembly and whatnot. I'm taking the car back in this week and I'm making sure they replace everything and get it working properly. Hopefully this will be the end of it... make sure they put in a SUBARU clutch kit and not an aftermarket one. The aftermarket ones can cause this. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simsj_1999 Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Granted, mine is a 97 Legacy OB so there might be some differences, but I had exactly the same problem and the Subaru shop had to go in and pull the clutch out 6 times. They told me everything under the sun to convince me that the vibration was normal. If it's the same thing I experienced, it is the flywheel. If they don't get it resurfaced just perfectly then this is the symptom you get. If you don't trust them to keep trying to get it right, a new flywheel is almost $400 but would probably solve your problems..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusGradient Posted November 3, 2006 Author Share Posted November 3, 2006 Granted, mine is a 97 Legacy OB so there might be some differences, but I had exactly the same problem and the Subaru shop had to go in and pull the clutch out 6 times. They told me everything under the sun to convince me that the vibration was normal. If it's the same thing I experienced, it is the flywheel. If they don't get it resurfaced just perfectly then this is the symptom you get. If you don't trust them to keep trying to get it right, a new flywheel is almost $400 but would probably solve your problems..... That's really good to know, It's been feeling like I was the only one with this particular kind of shudder. The mechanics just looked at me like I was an idiot when I described it, and just told me it was "normal with subarus." I'll suggest that they put a new flywheel in...I guess I can't really order them to do it since I'm not paying for this job and it's just warranty work. Another question - I just got a message from the shop and they said they ordered a new clutch assembly. What exactly is included if you order a new assembly? I'm assuming it's everything from the throw-out bearing, pressure plate, etc. to the clutch disc? Would it include a new flywheel, or does that have to be separately ordered? Thanks for all the help guys, this is great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subeman90 Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 flywheels don't usually come with a kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simsj_1999 Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Flywheels are separate from the clutch kit (pressure plate, disc, throwout bearing) and I'd recommend getting one from the dealer. If it's not completely true/within tolerance, then that's where your shudder comes from...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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