CornerHard Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 I've recently installed a Weber 32/36 on my EA81 GL, and I've had a variety of issues with it, such as: - engine diesels for a couple seconds when I shut the car off - the coolant passage that connects to the underside of the carb appears to leak a bit - when the car is cold and idling, sometimes it will try to die The main issue of this thread, however, is the throttle cable. I was able to cut the upper throttle spring mount off my old hitachi and bolt it to the weber, so the throttle return spring works just dandy. However, because the location of the weber is closer to the middle of the car and farther forward, the throttle cable is stretched to the limit. I had to remove the firewall-side thottle adjuster nut to get the throttle cable as close as possible to the carb, and it still has enough tension that I can't adjust my idle any lower than 1500rpms. Are there any other adjustment points or tricks I can do to get a couple more centimeters of throttle cable play? Bonus question - is there a guide to altering the air/fuel mixture on the weber? It'd be fun to hook my wideband up to my Subaru and see if I can get the fuel curves adjusted properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 - engine diesels for a couple seconds when I shut the car off This is all about timing and idle speed/mixture. If you have it set properly it will not do that. - the coolant passage that connects to the underside of the carb appears to leak a bit The Weber adaptor plates don't cover the hole all that well, but then they really aren't meant to as the Weber doesn't need to have it's base heated. Block the coolant flow to the base of the carb. Best way I've found is to poke a small bit of window screen into the hole, and fill it with JB weld up to almost the top and let it cure. - when the car is cold and idling, sometimes it will try to die That's all about the choke, and the idle speed/mixture again. It also could be a vacuum leak from the carb base. When the carb is cold, the fast idle cam is engaged, and if there are any slight vac leaks under the carb it won't have enough vacuum to pull any fuel into the main circuit, and since the fast idle cam is engaged, it can't run on the idle circuit - so it dies out. -The main issue of this thread, however, is the throttle cable. I was able to cut the upper throttle spring mount off my old hitachi and bolt it to the weber, so the throttle return spring works just dandy. However, because the location of the weber is closer to the middle of the car and farther forward, the throttle cable is stretched to the limit. I had to remove the firewall-side thottle adjuster nut to get the throttle cable as close as possible to the carb, and it still has enough tension that I can't adjust my idle any lower than 1500rpms. Are there any other adjustment points or tricks I can do to get a couple more centimeters of throttle cable play? You can move/bend the thottle cable mount, or you can get one of the mounts that bolts to the back two bolts of the Weber. Some kits come with them, and some do not. -Bonus question - is there a guide to altering the air/fuel mixture on the weber? It'd be fun to hook my wideband up to my Subaru and see if I can get the fuel curves adjusted properly. You can't adjust the mixture settings of the carb without changing the jets. This requires removing the top of the carb to access them, and you would need to get a "jet kit" that contains many different sizes of jets. The only adjustment on the carb for mixture is the idle mixture. Everything else is jetted. The stock jetting, and what most have found works best is 140/140 mains, 170/160 air bleeds, F50 emulsion tubes, and 50 or 60 idle jets. For a stock engine this is about perfect. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornerHard Posted December 30, 2006 Author Share Posted December 30, 2006 Thanks for the detailed replies! After closer inspection and fiddling, the throttle cable doesn't appear to be the limiting factor. The throttle plate will move freely, but it won't normally rest all the way against the idle adjust screw, keeping the throttle a bit too far open. I can close it all the way with my hand and a bit of pressure, but it seems like it's sticking in that last degree or two of movement. Is there something I need to adjust inside the carb? It doesn't seem like a problem that would be solved by just spraying lube on the mechanism. I'll have to search around for how to set idle mixture on the weber. I assume it's one of the screws on the carb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornerHard Posted December 30, 2006 Author Share Posted December 30, 2006 Okay, after consulting my weber documentation, I found the idle mixture adjustment screw. Now I just need to read up on how to set it properly To clarify: the throttle doesn't close all the way, even when the engine is warmed up fully. I have the electric choke hooked up on the carb, and it works just dandy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlecoil Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 Sounds like you may have the nut holding the throttle body on too tight, which the Weber manual says is the number one cause of issues. My EA82 dieseled as well until I adjusted the timing and mixture. I did it mainly by ear, but my mileage isn't the greatest so I think I'm going to take it in and have a pro set everything up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 Okay, after consulting my weber documentation, I found the idle mixture adjustment screw. Now I just need to read up on how to set it properly To clarify: the throttle doesn't close all the way, even when the engine is warmed up fully. I have the electric choke hooked up on the carb, and it works just dandy. The fast idle cam keeps the throttle open a bit when the choke is closed.... pressing hard will "snap" it closed, but it's supposed to be open a little - have you checked to make sure the choke is openeing 100% before you adjust the cable slack? Idle mixture is something you play with - you play with the speed, then the mixture - back and forth till you get it where you want it. I like mine at about 800 to 900 idle speed personally. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 I did it mainly by ear, but my mileage isn't the greatest so I think I'm going to take it in and have a pro set everything up. Looks elsewhere - your Weber is brand new, so your mileage is probably related to something else - tire inflation, roof rack.... who knows, but the idle settings have basically nothing to do with mileage - once your are rolling, the idle circuit is complete inoperative. The mileage is about the jetting, and a factory new Weber will already be "set up" for optimal mileage and power. Make SURE your choke is openeing 100%, as even a small amount of lean to the plate will cause increased fuel consumption. Look for your mileage to be around 28 MPG give or take, and make SURE you know how to calculate it. Average your results over several tankfulls to eleminate differences in "top off" amounts at the station. Don't pay someone to mess with a brand new Weber - they will probably jack it up, and it's likely not your problem. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornerHard Posted December 31, 2006 Author Share Posted December 31, 2006 Look for your mileage to be around 28 MPG give or take, and make SURE you know how to calculate it. GD Wow, I need to work on my setup! I average about 20mpg. I suppose I should start by removing the roof rack I never use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 20 MPG running a Weber is the SUX!!!! I don't know about the roof rack, but I'd be looking at stuff like tire pressure, brakes dragging, front-end alignment, driving habits, ignition stuff. I'm averaging in the high 26.x to low 29.x MPG in the Webered '86 BRAT, depending on how I drive it. And this is with, or was with, front-end issues. I've replaced alot of stuff under it, and she just seems to roll much freer than before, so maybe I've freed up some more MPG's, we shall see. This same Weber was on an EA-82 engine in my '82 BRAT, and I got consistant 29-30 MPG in it while it was on the road. Are you using a Fuel Pressure Regulator? Some have needed one, (like me), some haven't. On mine, (and in both BRATs), I could see gas dripping down the barrels of the carb while it was idleing. Putting a FPR in the line to the carb eliminated that. The fuel pump can over-power the float in the carb, causing the float level to be to high, leading to it over filling the bowl, making it run rich at low engine speeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornerHard Posted January 6, 2007 Author Share Posted January 6, 2007 After fiddling with the idle mixture as mentioned earlier in the thread, I'm now getting 24mpg. Next step is removing roof rack, trying a higher tire pressure, and fixing weird front end alignment issues, which are probably ruining my mileage as well as tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlecoil Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 I finally took the subie to the local mechanic to set the basic specs. I got tired of having it diesel on shutdown and have been working too much to fiddle with it any further as it is the wife's daily driver. According to the mech, I had the timing at 8 degrees when it should have been 20 and there were way too many hydrocarbons in the exhaust meaning it was running too rich, which they adjusted. They charged me one hour of labor or about 80 bucks. So far so good. Good performance and no dieseling. I'll post the mileage figures when I get them in about a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 I finally took the subie to the local mechanic to set the basic specs. I got tired of having it diesel on shutdown and have been working too much to fiddle with it any further as it is the wife's daily driver. According to the mech, I had the timing at 8 degrees when it should have been 20 and there were way too many hydrocarbons in the exhaust meaning it was running too rich, which they adjusted. They charged me one hour of labor or about 80 bucks. So far so good. Good performance and no dieseling. I'll post the mileage figures when I get them in about a week. Your mechanic is full of $hit. The timing is correct at 8. 20 is only for fuel injected engines. Setting the base timing of a carb to 20 will result in massive pinging and possible piston damage if the distributor advance's are working. It's possible if you don't have any pinging that your vacuum advance is shot. I wouldn't go back to those idiots. How exactly did they "adjust" it's richness? The Weber doesn't have any adjustments for mixture other than idle. I think they are pulling your wallet. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 ... How exactly did they "adjust" it's richness? The Weber doesn't have any adjustments for mixture other than idle. ... Just for Info: My Weber 32/36 came with a Mixture Screw and the Idle Screw too... Maybe that´s because it is Brand New (It Says: Made in Spain) That leads me to think that older Webers didn´t have that mixture Screw. I obtained mine at: www.webercarburetors.com Also, I know you´re talkin´ about a EA81, but my 1985 EA82 says set the Timin´ at 8º and we discovered that our EA82 Performs Better with timin´ set at 22º (Also I Saw that Newers EA82 says to set Timin´ at 20º ) it can be readed easily in the Under the Hood Sticker. My EA82 has its Timin´ at Around 22º and 25º since 1993 up to this date without any problem, and I only "Touch" a Li´l bit the Starter with the Key, and it Comes to Live (Starts) Inmediately. Other info: the Weber´s Mixture Screw is designed to be Adjusted as the Old Ford´s carbs: When engine reach its Normal Operatin´ temps and is at Idle Speed (Usually Between 700 and 900 Rpm´s) just Screw or unscrew it slowly, when you notice a Point when the Engine´s Vibrations are almost Gone, there is the "Good" Point for your Engine. My Manual says somethin´ like That. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Just for Info: My Weber 32/36 came with a Mixture Screw and the Idle Screw too... Maybe that´s because it is Brand New (It Says: Made in Spain) That leads me to think that older Webers didn´t have that mixture Screw. No - they all have both screws, but one is idle speed, and one is idle mixture. BOTH are for idle adjustment only. Once the throttle is more than about 5 degrees open the idle circuit loses it's vacuum signal and goes passive. The main circuit and high speed circuit take over and their "mixture" is 100% jet controlled. There are NO service adjustments for anything but idle speed, idle mixture, choke pull-off, and choke spring rate. So really, either they did nothing at all or they just have no idea what they are doing. I've installed about a dozen Weber's at this point - 4 of which on personal vehicles. My first was over 4 years ago, and was a brand new redline as well. I've done one other brand new one for a friend, and all the others were rebuilt by me. They all run exactly the same, and get the same mileage if you set them up right. There's no magic to it, but for a supposed "mechanic" to tell you he adjusted the mixture, and set your timing to 20 degrees speaks volumes to someone like myself that knows a thing or two about carbs and specifically Weber's. At this point I have more Weber experience than I do with the stock Hitachi's. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 No - they all have both screws, but one is idle speed, and one is idle mixture. BOTH are for idle adjustment only. Yes! You´re Right! I Sometimes confuse some Terms, ´cos I speak Spanish (Lost in Translation), Idle Speed & Idle Mixture... Not Mixture at All, just the Idle. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Thank you! Be they downdraft or sidedraft.. A Thing of Beauty is a Joy, Forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Be they downdraft or sidedraft.. A Thing of Beauty is a Joy, Forever. Agreed - they really are great little units. Very easy to work with. The whole point is so you DONT have to take it to the tard mechanic down the street. Want it done right? Do it yourself. Especially true with carbs as there are few mechanics around that can work on them. 20 degrees indeed GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Agreed - they really are great little units. Very easy to work with. The whole point is so you DONT have to take it to the tard mechanic down the street. Want it done right? Do it yourself. Especially true with carbs as there are few mechanics around that can work on them. 20 degrees indeed GD What is awesome to me is their applications for performance reasons.. The datsun crowd goes in for the side draft carbs for obvious reasons, so I am more familiar with those webers.. and good god, two 44mm sidedraft webers on a high comp 2 liter U20 motor.... the sound coming out of those things is incredible, and the polished race carbs on the race motor are truly a work of art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlecoil Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Well, I might have it backwards. He may have said I had it at 20 and he set it to 8, I honestly can't remember. All I know is the dieseling was driving me crazy and that seems to be fixed. We'll see on the mileage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 ... Want it done right? Do it yourself. ... Absolut Agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlecoil Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I may be guilty of a thread hijack, but here goes. My dieseling came back. Not all the time, today it did it when I shut it down when warm. The General was right again, looks like I got taken by the local shop. I then paniced, since I had to fly out of town in a matter of hours, couldn't drive the thing 52 miles to the airport (due to a different problem, see below) and wanted to fix the damn dieseling so the wife wouldn't have to deal with it while I was gone. After numerous near random adjustments, it seems that it won't diesel as long as the idle mixture screw is turned clockwise far enough that the engine idles slightly rough. It basically starts to run a little rough, then you turn it about another third of a turn to make it more rough to get it to not diesel. This has me wondering about the vacuum advance, which GeneralDisorder mentioned. I had a factory new EA82 dropped into this baby up in Anchorage about 20,000 miles ago and it has idled rough ever since. I took it back to them, but they said it was the best they could do. This car had the feedback, Cali carb so they were probably not used to that setup up there. Maybe with the Weber in it now, whatever was causing the rough idle has caused the engine to run even worse with a Weber on it? How can I troubleshoot the vacuum advance? I'm going to have to buy a timing light so I can get this nailed down precisely as well. The other problem could just be another bad CV joint. I had both axles and both front bearings done one year ago or about 10,000 miles ago. One of the axles went bad and was replaced under warranty. However that one still has LOTS of play in all directions on the tranny side. It seems the other one is going out now. Loud clank, clank, clank on turns and when braking. I'm using a different mechanic now than the one who did the front end work, because he took much longer than he said he would everytime, and was weak in the diagnostic area. If it is another CV, what should I tell the new mechanic about which parts to use? Are OEM CV's clearly better? How much more expensive are they? The only thing that is worrying me currently is that it might not be a CV and might be something I somehow screwed up when I did the carb. I drilled out the intake manifold with larger holes and tapped in threads for the Weber plate. I was careful not to get anything into the manifold and vacuumed it out thoroughly. However, the timing access hole under the spare tire was not covered. I'm guessing that is the flywheel that is spinning right there. Is it possible that if something fell into there that it could damage something in the tranny? The reason I ask is that there is an audible clunk when engaging and disengaging the clutch that I don't think was there before. This only happens in two wheel drive; in four wheel there is no clunk. Could that just be the CV? I've put at least 3 axles on each side of this baby in the last 12 years and I'm getting tired of it. My paranoid mind is racing and imagining a washer or something that is stuck down in the tranny from the timing window. I certainly hope not. It's about time for the subie to run good for a couple of months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Ok - the CV issue definately sounds like you are on the right track. Nothing you could have dropped into the clutch area would do anything remotely like that, and likely wouldn't do anything at all but fall to the bottom of the housing and get stuck in the muck down there. Don't worry about that The CV is either (as you imagine) the CV itself, or it's the axle nut come loose. Happens a LOT. I sugest doing the axle yourself so you KNOW it's tight. Replace the cone washer under the axle nut with a new one from the dealer. Cheap insurance. GCK axles are by far the best, but I hear that GCK has run out of EA82 axles in the US and are awaiting import of more from the manufacturing plant. MWE enterprises is a good second choice - many swear by both. Rebuilt - even dealer rebuilt, are junk. Definately get a timing light. Harbor Frieght has them cheap. Set your timing to 7 or 8 degrees. And you idle speed needs to be around 700 to 800 or the dieseling won't stop. The rough idle could be a vacuum leak. Test the pot on the distributor by putting a length of vac hose on it, and sucking on the end. The pot should move the lever inside the distributor, and it should not return till you stop sucking. If it does or doesn't move at all, then the rubber diapham is shot. Check for other vacuum leaks by spraying around with carb cleaner or brake cleaner. Anywhere you spray that smoothes out the idle is a potential leak. Check thoroughly. Also are you adjusting the idle mixture? It's a balancing act - if you change the idle speed, then you have to change the mixture too. If you lowered the idle speed and the deiseling stopped, then you need to adjust the mixture till it runs smooth again. A slight lean stumble is ok for idle, but it shouldn't be a very noticeable thing. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlecoil Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Excellent news, and thank again for the reply. I have been adjusting both the mixture and idle speed at the same time. I do hear a ping on occasion, but not consistently at any setting. That has me definitely thinking I need a timing light to do things precisely. Im much more confident now that I can resolve this myself. One other question that I had is the vacuum line that I bought. I think that I bought a slightly too narrow line. I had to really work it to get it on the carb and the disty. Would too small a vacuum line cause problems¿ Can you tell Im typing on a Mexican keyboard¿ Anyway, my coworker, who rebuilds cars, thinks it would be wise to replace the PCV as they can cause strange problems so Im going to do that as well. I think there is a Harbor Freight on my way home from the airport so Im golden there as well. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Vacuum line should be fine. Small is ok as long as it's connected. PCV is all-metal on these - just pull it and soak it in carb cleaner overnight. That will clean it up good as new. No need to replace it. It's not your problem anyway though. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyromanic Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Well, I might have it backwards. He may have said I had it at 20 and he set it to 8, I honestly can't remember. All I know is the dieseling was driving me crazy and that seems to be fixed. We'll see on the mileage. Yes, you must have had it backwards. 20 degrees on a carbed EA 82 is very bad juju. Pyro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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