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Hey gang,

I'm sure some of you have heard that there's legislation in the pipleline to mandate stability control for the 2010 model year vehicles.

Does anyone know the legislation allows the stability control to be switchable? (I.e., can you defeat it if you wish to do so via a dash switch?)

 

Nathan

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There's one piece of evidence that suggests otherwise.

 

The new BMW M5 is available with a DSC override ONLY if it has the SMG trans. The new 6-speed MT version that BMW has reluctantly come out with does not have it.

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There's one piece of evidence that suggests otherwise.

 

The new BMW M5 is available with a DSC override ONLY if it has the SMG trans. The new 6-speed MT version that BMW has reluctantly come out with does not have it.

 

Thanks for the response. I'm glad to hear that some vehicles will have an overide...but, frankly, what's the point of an 6-speed MT M5 if you can't defeat the DSC and hang it out a little in corners? You'd think that the most enthusiast oriented model would allow that. I guess that on second thought I won't be trading in my '91 318iS. (heh heh.)

Sorry for the off topic digression...stability control seems a little redundant on AWD Subarus, IMHO.

 

Nathan

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As I have heard around here before, stability control is just a band-aid for bad design.

 

Bad driving you mean?

 

I don't think there should be anything "mandatory" about new cars.

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...stability control seems a little redundant on AWD Subarus, IMHO.

Nathan

I believe the Legacy and Forester have some sort a stability control on the new models. It was one of the reason why they made it to the top of the car list and Impreza didin't.

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It doesn't suprise me one bit. the government likes to tell us whats best for us:mad: sure its fine if its there but please alow the driver to defeat it if they want to. i was autoxing this year and took a ride in a new MK5 gti he was able to defeat the stability and traction control... although ever time you turn the car back on you have to re defeat it. thats fine with me but not havint that control is pushing it. i guess this is another reason i'll stick to older cars:)

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It doesn't suprise me one bit. the government likes to tell us whats best for us:mad: sure its fine if its there but please alow the driver to defeat it if they want to. i was autoxing this year and took a ride in a new MK5 gti he was able to defeat the stability and traction control... although ever time you turn the car back on you have to re defeat it. thats fine with me but not havint that control is pushing it. i guess this is another reason i'll stick to older cars:)

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http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4024270

 

Yes it will be mandatory. I wonder if they will find out like ABS it can make people over confident.

I know when i rent a car with traction control and the weather turns bad i shut it off. with traction control i get no feedback as to how slick the road is. I can see how traction control can make people drive faster and get into serious trouble.

 

Yes the goverment is finding it easier to mandate computers then mandate stricter and national driver training standards, since the enchroches on state rights.

 

I had my drivers training in winter, and i think that was the best thing that could have ever been done. I learned right off the bat how to drive in bad weather, and not the other way around.

 

Stability control i havent decided on yet, but i can see people drioving faster because of it.

 

nipper

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I wonder if they will find out like ABS it can make people over confident.

 

I love asking people what ABS is for. 19 times out of 20 they say," To help me stop faster." :eek: Can you say WRONG! ABS is to allow you to maintain control of the car. In some cases it will help you sow the car faster, but that was never it's main intent.

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I'm not sure how it would be in winter snows, but the stability control on my BMW is so non intrusive I leave it on all the time now. It tends to do exactly what I would do but sometimes a bit faster. If you were going to drift a car I'm sure you would be smart enough to defeat the control.

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If these systems keep people from blocking the hills on snowy days, I'm all for them.

 

maybe if the goverment mandated a snow sensor interlock.......

 

:banana:

 

 

nipper

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TCS/ESP programs do definitely have their use. My wife's SUV handles MUCH better on the ice/snow with it, and even in the rain I've found use for it as the tires age and wear out.

 

It is disableable on her SUV... I just hope they keep it that way after 2010.

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I'm with Nipper on winter driver training. When I first had my license my favorite thing to do was to find a big empty, snow covered parking lot and do donuts and e-brake slides. Besides being tons of fun you get to learn how the car handles at the edges of it's limits in pretty safe environment.

 

When my son learns to drive I plan on taking him for some parking lot donuts the first time it snows. Of course by then (15 years from now) he'll just look at me and say "Geez, dad why bother? I'll just take my jetpack"

 

 

matt

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I'm with Nipper on winter driver training. When I first had my license my favorite thing to do was to find a big empty, snow covered parking lot and do donuts and e-brake slides. Besides being tons of fun you get to learn how the car handles at the edges of it's limits in pretty safe environment.

 

When my son learns to drive I plan on taking him for some parking lot donuts the first time it snows. Of course by then (15 years from now) he'll just look at me and say "Geez, dad why bother? I'll just take my jetpack"

 

 

matt

 

more likely "gee dad whats snow"

 

nipper

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TCS/ESP programs do definitely have their use. My wife's SUV handles MUCH better on the ice/snow with it, and even in the rain I've found use for it as the tires age and wear out.

 

It is disableable on her SUV... I just hope they keep it that way after 2010.

This just adds to what Nipper was saying. People will be driving balder tires on average, offseting positive effect of traction control.

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but, frankly, what's the point of an 6-speed MT M5 if you can't defeat the DSC and hang it out a little in corners?

 

Trust me, there are a lot of people who are capable of buying a 500-horsepower car, but are not capable of HANDLING a 500-hp car. :rolleyes:

 

 

I guess that on second thought I won't be trading in my '91 318iS. (heh heh.)

 

My friend had a 91 318is. I wish he still had it. It wasn't fast, but it was fun.

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I'm with Nipper on winter driver training. When I first had my license my favorite thing to do was to find a big empty, snow covered parking lot and do donuts and e-brake slides. Besides being tons of fun you get to learn how the car handles at the edges of it's limits in pretty safe environment.

 

 

 

What do you mean by, "first got my license". Lol I still get a thrill out of it and even more so in a Subaru. We got '8 snow yesterday, yes it was blast hitting 3 heavily covered and snow packed parking lots!At work a snow plow surrounded my baby in a deep, hard pack.No problem for the Forester. Even more fun was passing up this Pt Cruiser as it thrashed about in a utter lack of positive traction.:Flame:

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more likely "gee dad whats snow"

 

Ouch, too true Nipper. It'll probably be jet skis and sampans up here in Western MA.

 

What do you mean by, "first got my license". Lol I still get a thrill out of and even more so in a Subaru. We got '8 snow yesterday, yes it was blast hitting 3 heavily covered and snow packed parking lots!At work a snow plow surrounded my baby in a deep, hard pack.No problem for the Forester. Even more fun was passing up this Pt Cruiser as it thrashed about in a utter lack of positive traction.:Flame:

 

We just got our first inch of snow here, just good enough for some donuts in the work parking lot on my way home, by the time I hit the main roads they were just wet.

 

I love how you can go around a corner, start sliding and give it power to straighten out. Subies for ever.

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Did anyone ever see that study where (1000 I believe) of taxis, where half were fitted with ABS and and the other half weren't? All the drivers knew whether or not they had it. The drivers with ABS had no fewer accidents because they took more risks thinking the ABS would compensate or protect them. Traction/stability control would be the same case. There really is very little anyone can do to make a car safer. The right foot of the driver (and knowledge or lack of) in the driver's head are the only 2 safety tools that matter in the end.

 

Fortunately, there will always be a supply of knowledgable people who take cash to remove intrusive mandatory "safety" equipment. :cool:

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Did anyone ever see that study where (1000 I believe) of taxis, where half were fitted with ABS and and the other half weren't? All the drivers knew whether or not they had it. The drivers with ABS had no fewer accidents because they took more risks thinking the ABS would compensate or protect them. Traction/stability control would be the same case. There really is very little anyone can do to make a car safer. The right foot of the driver (and knowledge or lack of) in the driver's head are the only 2 safety tools that matter in the end.

 

Fortunately, there will always be a supply of knowledgable people who take cash to remove intrusive mandatory "safety" equipment. :cool:

Just removing will no longer be sufficient soon :)

OBD4-5-6 will be keeping track of it, voiding your warranty and automatically sending tickets for reckless driving for anyone without mandatory safety equipment. :)

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May I quote Sir Alec Issigonis? Designer of the orginal Austin Mini :

 

 

"If you give drivers margins, they use them up."

 

 

He was referring to the little car's huge improvement in handling and roadholding over contemporary rivals.

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