JohnVT Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Hi - wife called today barely making it into a parking lot with the 97 OBW 2.5 engine. At first she said it squealed (or whined), then killed on the road, but she restarted and made it barely into a parking lot (well, my son had to get out and push it the last several yards into the spot...). From her first description I had thought timing belt, but then it would not have restarted, nor would it be turning over. So now, it turns over, making a kind of whine. But it won't start. Fuel? I just changed the plug wires back to OEM, and cleaned the plugs (NGK). It's got 150000 mi, and had a new timing belt at 90000, including new oil seals (cam, main, oil pump o-ring and rtv). It does have oil in it. And I've had a rear O2 sensor heater code for a while, but haven't had a chance to change the sensors... It's cold out, and I need to clean the garage some to get it inside. Not much to go on, but any hints on where to start looking?? thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 the funny whine.... well if one of the idler pulleys went KaPOOT it could run badly with the timing belt skipping and shredding itself until it took out the valves all cyl in both heads. Mine did this, the funny whine was the engine turning over with no compression on any cylinder. Sorry, I sure hope I'm wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Maybe the timing belt skipped a tooth or 5 But then that interference engine might be damaged, because i think it is interfernce engine=bent valves :-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Count your lucky stars that the timing belt jumped and didnt snap. You may have lucked out and have no engine damage. Which leads to the question, how many miles on this car, and when was the last time a timing belt was done? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankosolder2 Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Don't forget that it's possible that one of the belt driven accessories (alternator, PS pump, AC compressor) has siezed up. Or it could be timing belt idler pulley(s)! Nathan Hi - wife called today barely making it into a parking lot with the 97 OBW 2.5 engine. At first she said it squealed (or whined), then killed on the road, but she restarted and made it barely into a parking lot (well, my son had to get out and push it the last several yards into the spot...). From her first description I had thought timing belt, but then it would not have restarted, nor would it be turning over. So now, it turns over, making a kind of whine. But it won't start. Fuel? I just changed the plug wires back to OEM, and cleaned the plugs (NGK). It's got 150000 mi, and had a new timing belt at 90000, including new oil seals (cam, main, oil pump o-ring and rtv). It does have oil in it. And I've had a rear O2 sensor heater code for a while, but haven't had a chance to change the sensors... It's cold out, and I need to clean the garage some to get it inside. Not much to go on, but any hints on where to start looking?? thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnVT Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 Maybe the timing belt skipped a tooth or 5 But then that interference engine might be damaged, because i think it is interfernce engine=bent valves :-\ so is it possible it only skipped a few teeth, then enough to not start, but still not enough for valves/pistons to clash?? sounds like I'll have to tear the front off the engine tomorrow, despite the temperature. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnVT Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 Don't forget that it's possible that one of the belt driven accessories (alternator, PS pump, AC compressor) has siezed up. Or it could be timing belt idler pulley(s)! Nathan the accessories are turning. so, still points to the timing belt pulleys... or water pump. darn... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 John, as you can see in the above picture my timing belt (also a 97 OB) still looked intact when the side cover was removed. The center cover must come off meaning the crank harmonic damper must come off This is torqued to 125 lb-ft or more. Read not an easy removal. I used the "rope trick*" to get mine off as my 1/2" impact gun even at 150 PSI wouldn't budge it. (my engine was out of the car on a stand) I don't know if you can use the rope trick as getting to the spark plug holes is tuff nut. Might try the kamikaze maneuver**, as it has worked for many. Good luck mate. * rope trick => stuff about 5' of cotton clothsline down the spark plug hole to block the piston from moving ** kamikaze maneuver => prop a breaker bar on the crank pulley against the ground or frame and hit the starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnVT Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 Thanks Skip - I did change the t-belt at 90K. Used a chain wrench on the crank pulley with the old belt to protect the pulley. I used the engine in gear (5-speed) to tighten the bolt to 125. I'm not sure which method I'll use this time. The chain wrench scared me a little, thought it would be too easy to mess up the pulley, but it did work. But then, the kamikaze method sounds more dangerous to me. Of course, it's cold here, and the garage still needs some work to get the car inside... guess I wasn't prepared for a major problem in the winter! Supposed to get above freezing by next weekend though - HEAT WAVE! SO, I'll patch up some rust holes in my 85 Saab so I can get it inspected Monday so at least I'll get another car on the road soon. (Been putting that off til warmer weather too, since I missed my chance in the fall...) Gee I need a new car.................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnVT Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 one other question - if the timing belt is the problem, how do I tell if the interference engine is ok? It does still turn over, but since I haven't taken the front covers off, I can't tell yet how much it might have slipped. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 first, stop turning it over second, youll find out when you check the belt third, if it sounds like its cranking normally (even RPM, even labor of the starter motor) you may have lucked out. But every crank of the starter can bring you that much closer to big trouble. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I tend to answer and not warn speculate Pul the entire front timing covers off Reset the belt as per the End Wrench proceedure. As nipper says do not rotate ant cam/crank further. Careful with compressing the tensioner. if you need a LinK try this http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/TBeltEWWin05.pdf Crank it over and check comp pressure. If you have good comp pres, your good. if not Sorry see my above post. The board and I wish you the best tidings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 The board and I wish you the best tidings Sheesh it sounds like your wishing James Cooke a good trip as he goes off to the artic nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnVT Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 Sheesh it sounds like your wishing James Cooke a good trip as he goes off to the artic nipper thanks all! I'll repost once I see the belt and idlers... John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnVT Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 I took the front off today (weather was sunny and 30F!!). The belt and pulleys look new. The belt was changed at 90K, 60K ago. The top right cam was about 4-5 teeth out of time with everything else. Everything else was lined up. I think the tensioner went out, but it looks like I was very lucky. SO - I could change the belt, tensioner and tension pulley, and the oil seals (again, there's still some seapage). BUT at 150K miles even though everything still looks new and firm, I guess I shouldn't take a chance of putting it back together with old parts... My local dealer will sell me parts at LIST for about $700. He doesn't have the water pump in stock... For the reasons as stated here many times, I could buy from other auto parts stores, but am very wary of that now. SO I guess I'll get everything but the water pump and put it all back together tomorrow. Fingers crossed, but I think this is lowest risk. Since it died on a busy street my wife really would prefer that that doesn't happen again!! So, new exhaust, another new timing belt et al, and it needs at least one O2 sensor... hope it lasts now. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 *gasp* 700.00?????? thats how much that entire job should cost if the dealer did it. Get the timing belt and the tensioner from subaru. Everything else can be aftermarket. Waterpump you can get as an aftermarket. Also try https://www.subarugenuineparts.com/oe_parts_cat.html Jamie has good prices. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnVT Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 thanks - got everything except the water pump from the dealer, at list. wouldn't do better, but it's here, and I need to finish today. and these parts aren't available from other sources around here. how risky is it to leave the original water pump in at 150K? I can get a new one from an aftermarket auto parts store, but don't know the quality... what is the failure mechanism? Leak coolant (bearings), or worse - tear up the t-belt? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 thanks - got everything except the water pump from the dealer, at list. wouldn't do better, but it's here, and I need to finish today. and these parts aren't available from other sources around here. how risky is it to leave the original water pump in at 150K? I can get a new one from an aftermarket auto parts store, but don't know the quality... what is the failure mechanism? Leak coolant (bearings), or worse - tear up the t-belt? John very risky id say, very likely for it to start leaking. I would stick to OEM. But im sure the aftermarket MAY suffice. When mine died, it just leaked like crazy, but i dont know if my T belt was damaged, because i changed the t belt and water pump at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnVT Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 one more question! what are the 'ears' on the crankshaft sprocket for? how catastrophic is it if one breaks off?? thanks again:mad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 well if your talking about what i think your talking about.. The tabs that are at irregular spaces apart form each other? Very important. The car wont run without them. They make the signal for the crankshaft position sensor. Otherwise i am not sure what you mean. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnVT Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 well if your talking about what i think your talking about..The tabs that are at irregular spaces apart form each other? Very important. The car wont run without them. They make the signal for the crankshaft position sensor. Otherwise i am not sure what you mean. nipper yep - I guess another break (no pun intended) to go back to the dealer... (and this one was my fault!!!) thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnVT Posted March 12, 2007 Author Share Posted March 12, 2007 ok, how do I check the compression with no start? I have a compression guage, but I think it needs to be running? what do I need? I thought it was turning ok, so changed everything ($$$$$$$) as I described before, but now still whining when trying to start, and no ignition. but did sound like a backfire, so now of course, sounds like a bad valve. so is this a pull it out? guess I'll pull the HG too now... and the ECU has been complaining about the rear O2 sensor for a while too... hope that didn't mask something else. thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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