ImprezaRSC Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I bought this 1991 Legacy 2.2 AWD wagon with 275k on the odometer. It was another "cheap" ethanol experiment to see what would happen. I hadn't tried ethanol in an OBD1 car. I figured it would either run, or leak like a sieve and grenade the motor. 1500 miles (YES 1500 M-I-L-E-S) of 20-50% ethanol content and the car is running fine. I have not replaced the fuel filter, injectors, pump, or any of the ORIGINAL fuel lines. The car passed emissions needing a head gasket with a 20% mix. Mileage has been consistently 22-27mpg. It idles a LITTLE rough when it's cold. However, driving it around, you really wouldn't know ethanol is in the tank. The car has spent most of it's time in 5th gear on the interstate, lately. I tend to grandma the car a bit and never rev it over 4000rpm. The car is a slug anyway, so there's no real point. Low end torque is just fine. I don't push it on the top end mostly due to the loose oil pump bolts. I'll keep running it like this until it explodes or I need to finally replace the engine. I'm planning on a boosted 1.8L w/ 5lbs of intercooled boost and a TD13T off of a WRX. My RS is still torn apart, but I can't resist tinkering with a Subaru :-p . My next experiment on this engine will be an MSD coil upgrade to see how it affects power and mileage. I'm able to run 50% ethanol (8-9 gallons of E85) in a completely stock, junked up POS and not die, wreck, or get molested by aliens. Let the flaming commence . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 The high ehtanol content does not just pop up instantly. If the car lasts a year then there is success. Most of us do not have access to ethanol to make our own mix, so its either 10% or 85% . I still wouldnt suggest it on a car that somone relies on thats not designed for it. What has your mileage been ? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImprezaRSC Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 True. It's early to declare success. Late enough to not declare emminent failure, though . Mileage has been 22-27mpg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 what does it get on pure gasoline? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 True. It's early to declare success. Late enough to not declare emminent failure, though . Mileage has been 22-27mpg. probably a dumb question, but is the ethonal / gas mixture less expensive or is this an exercise in saving the earth.? has you $ per mile decereased? saw a TV show a couple of years ago that stated OPEC will keep gas / oil prices just below the point at which it's cheaper to find an alternative. therefore eliminating the ecomonic incentive to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otis Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Most of us do not have access to ethanol to make our own mix, so its either 10% or 85% ... Just a little off topic, but I was helping someone as he was testing a system to make biodiesel. He was running these tests and taking samples (maybe 8 oz or so) to analyze later. after we were done with the "run", I helped him dispose of the biodiesel- since it was technically "waste product." Over the course of a week or so, we must have filled two 55 gallon barrels worth of "waste." Too bad I don't have a diesel car or I would have asked if I could "alleviate" some of his waste disposal issues. anyway back on topic... I don't know a lot about the issues of running ethanol, but I gotta think it's like smoking... it's gonna catch up to you one of these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Nipper says " Most of us do not have access to ethanol (Cheaply) to make our own mix" State stores in PA still sell Pharmco 190 proof But I wouln't want to dump it in my car's fuel tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImprezaRSC Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 I'm not making my own blend at home. I simply fill up the tank with 8 gallons of gasoline and 8 gallons of E85. Both pumps are right next to each other at the station I fill up at. 8 gallons of each give me roughly 45% ethanol/55% gas. I don't measure things out to fractions of a percent with this stuff. The computer handles the rest of the adjustments. I do have a feeling that I'm pushing things a bit with this mix on this old ECU. I waited for 2 years and 15,000 miles for my RS to blow up on E85 and it never did. This little experiment was worth trying and these are the results I have. Take the results as you may, but I'll keep using this stuff as long as I may. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 First of all, an historic reference: Henry Ford had intended for his cars to run on ethanol, but alas "Prohibition" put an end to brewing the stuff for a long while. He looked around and found a fossil fuel instead. Thanks a bunch, lawmakers. Second: Ethanol won't kill a gas/petrol car immediately. It's a slow process. The fuel pump will wear out faster, the injectors might do the same, depending on design. The big problem is that all those fuel lines are made of rubber designed to withstand petrol and ethanol will slowy eat them up. This causes slow leaks to develop. Very slow, and essentially they only emit vapour. Of course, that means the environment is suffering! Those fancy evaporative emissions control systems are useless when the fuel lines are leaking the vapour. Swedish tests, done recently since they made it mandatory for all gas to have 5% ethanol have proven the above. And now we're following suit in Denmark. How daft is that? It's typical of knee-jerk environmentalists. They champion ethanol as the new savior - and fail to look into the implications of changing just that one parameter. I'm all for ethanol powered cars, they just need to have fuel delivery systems designed for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subiefan Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Most of the gas here is E10. 10 percent ethanol/90 percent gasoline. Our cars are desinged to handle it. But yes, higher concentrations of ethanol will eat the rubber components of your fuel system. I've toyed around with the idea of converting an older car to run on E85. No computer. Rejet carb, advance timing, replace rubber fuel lines with metal ones, all that good stuff. But E85 is impossible to find, so that fell through. Now I just need to find a VW diesel and go raid McDonald's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Now I just need to find a VW diesel and go raid McDonald's. or wait for the new subie diesel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 We'll have those here at the end of this year ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 For those interested in more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85 http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/id36.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleb Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 We'll have those here at the end of this year ! c'mon, no need to brag now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Ethanol engines and efficiency Current ethanol engines are mildly modified gasoline engines with a few adjustments required to operate reliably, such as the use of various seals made of "Viton" rubber, as opposed the common "Butyl"-based rubber seals, to overcome the corrosive effect due to the alcohol content of the ethanol fuel. Also there is a necessary water-separator system because of atmospheric humidity contaminating vented fuel tanks. To make a vehicle reliable for long terms, that's what needs to be done. Steel braided fuel lines will suffice. Viton O-Rings for the injector seals would be needed. I don't think fuel injectors or fuel pumps typically have rubber inside of them... Wouldn't really need a water separator since the tanks are supposed to be sealed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarupusher Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 My truck is E85 certiified and I got to deduct the difference between a standard Chevy fuel system and one with special components that are resistant to ethanol. Works out to a few hundred bucks so I think it would be pretty easy to swap the parts for ethanol. Programming the computer may be another story. Hard to say how much tolerance the programming has to adjust the mixtures for optimum firing if the design was for only minor amounts of ethanol to be in the fuel. Oil is going back up so the money will be there to get more creative about ethanol prodution. Using enzymes to turn prairie plants into ethanol sounds promising and supposedly the yield will be greater than a field of corn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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