unverviking Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Noticed that the AT OIL Temp light blinks about 5 times (or so) right ater I start it up... Anyone know what it's telling me ?? Tranny seems to shift hard when cold, but smooths out when warm. The dealer I bought it from did a bunch of stuff to it before I bought it. New tires all the way around, brake and rotors all the way around, it has a new rad, so I would assume a Tranny flush/fill, but who knows... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Year and mileage please. It should blink 16 times if there is a problem, not 5 times. Are you sure your counting it right? A blinking ATF light is telling you the last time the car was operated there was an electrical issue. It could mean a failed solenoid or bad fluid temp sensor. What happens in tight turns? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unverviking Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 Year and mileage please. It should blink 16 times if there is a problem, not 5 times. Are you sure your counting it right? A blinking ATF light is telling you the last time the car was operated there was an electrical issue. It could mean a failed solenoid or bad fluid temp sensor. What happens in tight turns? nipper 96 Impreza OBW with 113k (almost) seems like brakes dragging in really tight turns... dealer used cheap brake pads, etc... I've been thinking it was that... Good thing I got the warranty (6mo/7500mi) with it, if it's tranny issues... I'll recount the blinks next time I get in and start it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 You have torque bind. DO a search here. Take it back to the dealer, show him the dragging, and tell him the duty C solenoid and the clutch pack are shot. It's an 800.00 repair. If you didnt have a warrenty we would suggest some things to try, but since you do, let him deal with it. You can try putting the fuse in the FWD fuse holder under the hood, but with an electrical failure that doesnt usually work. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 You have torque bind. DO a search here. Take it back to the dealer, show him the dragging, and tell him the duty C solenoid and the clutch pack are shot. It's an 800.00 repair. If you didnt have a warrenty we would suggest some things to try, but since you do, let him deal with it. You can try putting the fuse in the FWD fuse holder under the hood, but with an electrical failure that doesnt usually work. nipper +1 Nipper's absolutely right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 You have torque bind. DO a search here. Take it back to the dealer, show him the dragging, and tell him the duty C solenoid and the clutch pack are shot. It's an 800.00 repair. If you didnt have a warrenty we would suggest some things to try, but since you do, let him deal with it. You can try putting the fuse in the FWD fuse holder under the hood, but with an electrical failure that doesnt usually work. nipper Should we always assume everything in the transfer section needs replaced? The fact that it is binding (clutch engaging) means his clutches are not totally shot. Could be just the solenoid. Or a break in the solenoid wire. I swear I could post nothing but the words "torque bind" someone would tell me I needed a new clutch and Solenoid. Nipper, you might be unessecarily scaring this guy. You could argue that if you are replaceing the solenoid, you should do the clutches. But just because you've got a code(we still don't know that the code is for the Solenoid C) does not mean you need to spend $800 dollars. further diagnosis is needed. Telling people stuff like that will make alot of people not want to deal with it and trade in there Subaru on a Chevy or some other car. Are you trying to put people off of Subarus unnescesarily? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unverviking Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 I counted the blinks, it was 16. I tried the FWD fuse, not any better, maybe worse. I did not see any FWD light on the dash, as I did in my 01 when I had to use the donut spare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 I counted the blinks, it was 16. I tried the FWD fuse, not any better, maybe worse. I did not see any FWD light on the dash, as I did in my 01 when I had to use the donut spare I think you should have a FWD light on dash. I am not sure as I don't know imprezas. But if you do have a light, and it's not coming on, I suspect TCU (trans Computer) issues. This shows that your TCU is not processing the info it's getting correctly. That FWD light should light when you put the fuse in, whether the Duty solenoid c works or not. There is a way to make the TCU output it's codes. I believe this is how: You may have to insert the FWD fuse for this to work on some models. key off. using the overide button under shifter, move the slector to D(drive). depress MANUAL button. Turn key on. Engine off, move shifter to 3, then depress MANUAL button again. Move shifter to 2, depress MANUAL button again Move shifter to 1, depress throttle past half way you should see either the power Light, or the AT Temp light start blinking. One long 2.5 seconds. Then a series of very fast ones(.2 secs). Each short flash represents one of the sensors in the system. If while flashing the fast ones, you get a long flash(1 sec) then that is a trouble code for that item. So let's say the 9th flash is a one second flash, and all the others are short, you've got a code 9. If the 3rd flash is long(1 sec.) then you've got a code 3. Hopefully there is someone else reading this who knows the excact trouble codes for you're year and model. If anyone sees anything wrong with my description please chime in. Imprezas are the one model I have almost no direct experience with. So I may be off slightly on the Code extraction proceedure. But that is the jist of it, and I would recomend reading the codes yourself before taking it to the dealer. That way you have some idea of what is wrong, and are less likely to be rooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Why Do you always assume everything in the transfer section needs replaced? The fact that it is binding (clutch engaging) means his clutches are not totally shot. Could be just the solenoid. Or a break in the solenoid wire. I swear I could post nothing but the words "torque bind" and you would tell me I needed a new clutch and Solenoid. Nipper, you're scaring people. You could argue that if you are replaceing the solenoid, you should do the clutches. But just because you've got a code(we still don't know that the code is for the Solenoid C) does not mean you need to spend $800 dollars. further diagnosis is needed. Telling people stuff like that will make alot of people not want to deal with it and trade in there Subaru on a Chevy or some other car. Are you trying to put people off of Subarus unnescesarily? Maybe years of expieirence with subaru AWD units? I did not say ANYWHERE for him to spend money. My Post: "You have torque bind. DO a search here. Take it back to the dealer, show him the dragging, and tell him the duty C solenoid and the clutch pack are shot. It's an 800.00 repair. If you didnt have a warrenty we would suggest some things to try, but since you do, let him deal with it. You can try putting the fuse in the FWD fuse holder under the hood, but with an electrical failure that doesnt usually work." I said since he has a warrenty there is no reason for us to go through all the alternatives. I spoke the truth. Re read his second post. He is blessed with a 6 month warrenty on a older used car. He should take full advantage of it. "96 Impreza OBW with 113k (almost) seems like brakes dragging in really tight turns... dealer used cheap brake pads, etc... I've been thinking it was that... Good thing I got the warranty (6mo/7500mi) with it, if it's tranny issues..." WHy dont you critisize other people when they come on here with a problem, and our first response is "its under warrenty, take it to the dealer" This is the same thing. And as far as scaring people, i have often gone down the list with people on things to rule out, starting with tires. It's interesting to see that you didnt even list that. I left it out since he already said he has new tires. That also made me suspicous that maybe the first set didnt match. nipper PS someplace on the site someone has posted the tranny codes, i'll see if i can find them. I had a hard drive crash and used to have that stuff stored, now i have to try to find it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Here are the code links (scroll down a bit) http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=19805 nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bustedbolt Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 another option on the AT light on a car you just bought: as I was DRIVING HOME! from buying my legacy 2.2 96' i decided to drive hard and check things out.. 3 miles away from my cash, the AT light starts blinking, and my heart skips a few beats . I know this is bad. I go home and right to the forum... and read horror stories... tranny rebuild, torque bind, mystery tranny problems not resolved in the end of the threads. Of course lots of folks only keep posting if they HAVEN't fixed their problems. I have already driven in circles on my test drive. the tranny has been flushed 1 month ago... THEN,.. i find one poster suggest that his AT light comes on when he washes his car. and I remember the owner talking about just going to the car wash for me. NEVER had any tranny blinks since the first day! (one year ago this week!) pfew. just a possibility to keep floating in the forum. brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaruplatt Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Noticed that the AT OIL Temp light blinks about 5 times (or so) right ater I start it up... Anyone know what it's telling me ?? Tranny seems to shift hard when cold, but smooths out when warm. The dealer I bought it from did a bunch of stuff to it before I bought it. New tires all the way around, brake and rotors all the way around, it has a new rad, so I would assume a Tranny flush/fill, but who knows... The torque converter until it's warm, will not lockup. It's really best to drive it like an old lady for the first few minutes warming up. So that's not really a problem it is just the way subarus are, always protecting that $$$ transmission. Easy when you warm it up! "brakes dragging in really tight turns..." Is it the rear end dragging you? Can you tell?By all means check out the torque bind issues. If It's brakes especially repeated brake issues check out bent spindles maybe it was curbed? I had the weirdest problem with brakes on my old car and it turned out the spindles were the culprit. The brake rotors where literally conforming to the bent spindle and eventually warping. this is after a curbing mind you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unverviking Posted March 23, 2007 Author Share Posted March 23, 2007 The torque converter until it's warm, will not lockup. It's really best to drive it like an old lady for the first few minutes warming up.So that's not really a problem it is just the way subarus are, always protecting that $$$ transmission. Easy when you warm it up! "brakes dragging in really tight turns..." Is it the rear end dragging you? Can you tell?By all means check out the torque bind issues. If It's brakes especially repeated brake issues check out bent spindles maybe it was curbed? I had the weirdest problem with brakes on my old car and it turned out the spindles were the culprit. The brake rotors where literally conforming to the bent spindle and eventually warping. this is after a curbing mind you. I do drive like a granny(in my own vehicles) most of the time, don't want to kill anything... When I back up and keep the wheels straight, it rolls nicely. As soon as I start turning, I feel a drag, and (if the radio's not blaring) I can hear "dragging brakes" or at least what it sounds like to me. On occassion (wet/snow/stones) I do hear a dragging tire in the rear. I hear dragging on really tight forward turns as well. On faster turns, it just feels like a drag in the turn, but beautiful straight on. This and the AT OIL Temp light blinking is leading me to believe Duty C and Clutches. I am just waiting on the warranty card to come back from Penn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 I do drive like a granny(in my own vehicles) most of the time, don't want to kill anything... When I back up and keep the wheels straight, it rolls nicely. As soon as I start turning, I feel a drag, and (if the radio's not blaring) I can hear "dragging brakes" or at least what it sounds like to me. On occassion (wet/snow/stones) I do hear a dragging tire in the rear. I hear dragging on really tight forward turns as well. On faster turns, it just feels like a drag in the turn, but beautiful straight on. This and the AT OIL Temp light blinking is leading me to believe Duty C and Clutches. I am just waiting on the warranty card to come back from Penn. I am still amazed that you got a warrenty on a car with over 100,000 miles. Bravo. AT least you know its money well spent. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 I am just waiting on the warranty card to come back from Penn. A suggestion--go back and talk to the dealer asap, don't wait for a card or anything. That way you get it on the record and they know that you know there's a problem. Best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unverviking Posted March 23, 2007 Author Share Posted March 23, 2007 A suggestion--go back and talk to the dealer asap, don't wait for a card or anything. That way you get it on the record and they know that you know there's a problem. Best of luck. I already did, he's not affiliated with any brand, just a used car salesman with his own lot. He happens to like Subaru's because of their longevity. He's an old timer, and has said that he's dealt with Penn Warranty for several years, and has not had any bad reports from his customers that have bought them and needed to use them. The warranty will cover anything in the tranny, engine, drivetrain on AWD vehicles... It's fairly extensive, for just a basic contract. I checked Penn's website and they will warranty most any car with less than 150k, but nothing exotic, etc. The dealer selling the warranty has to certify that certain things were done, etc to qualify the car for the warranty. It is valid at any repair shop, just as long as they call Penn with the diagnosis. Not sure if the local Subaru dealer will take it in full, they supposedly cover labor up to $69/hr. Most dealers are more than that, but I'll have to call to verify with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unverviking Posted March 30, 2007 Author Share Posted March 30, 2007 Ended up taking it into a local (recommended) tranny shop. They determinated that it was the TCU, not the Duty C.. I stopped by while the guy was working on it, he had diagrams, and guides to follow to determine which and what was causing the trouble. They say that the based on their test drive, the clutches are still in good shape, that it was a good thing to bring it in now, and not let it get worse. Next ?... He (due to lateness in the day) was unable to price out a new and used TCU unit. Anyone got any ballpark figures ?? He will get back to me mid morning on Monday with pricing. Wanna be prepared though... This one is not covered under the warranty, the bad electrical component is outside the tranny case... So I gotta eat it... I guess... ALSO, I didn't notice when I bought it, but there are 2 different brand of tires on it. They are the same size, the tread is close... Opinions ?? anyone. I'd like to find a match to the fronts, they look to be the newest of the 4... SMALL TOWN USED CAR DEALER I BOUGHT IT FROM... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 There can be differences within the same brand of tires of the same size, let alone differnt brands. Since it sounds like you found a good tranny shop (nearly impossible to do), Ask him to measure the tires. Since he knows AWD he will understand your concern. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 He (due to lateness in the day) was unable to price out a new and used TCU unit. Anyone got any ballpark figures ?? go to www.car-part.com plug in your year make model... etc. they have lots of them. sort your search by distance and you may actually find one near by that you can pick up on a saturday morning. i can't remember the prices , but i think 35 - 75 is a safe bet. they are easy to to remove / install. 2 screws and 3 elect. connectors, after you remove the panel below the steering wheel (96 legacy). let us know how it goes. i'd love to know more about how they diagnosed it as the TCU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 let us know how it goes. i'd love to know more about how they diagnosed it as the TCU. So would I nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unverviking Posted March 31, 2007 Author Share Posted March 31, 2007 from what I saw of the docs he had, there were different scenarios to check the various components. When I pulled up (car was parked outside... nice weather finally) and he was using a meter and isolating the various components, and testing them out individually. I checked the used parts finder, it ranged from $35-75 ish. Nothing close around me either. Looking on genuinesubaruparts.com and cannot find it there, nor anything related, like the Duty C, clutch pack... :-\ Kinda bummed, weekend is here and no car to drive... Oh well, needs to be fixed... Still working on the tires. So far I'm not finding anyone carrying a match to the ones that are on it. But only searched online. I may buy all 4 somewhere and eBay the others in pairs. We'll see. :Flame:USED CAR DEALER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unverviking Posted April 6, 2007 Author Share Posted April 6, 2007 latest update on this.. They finally got the replacement TCU on Thursday AM. They placed it into the car, no code on initial startup (good sign in my book, that means that there wasn't an issue with it from the last car) But after driving it, and the subsequent starting, it flashed 16 times again. (not a good sign) They said that they needed to program the TCU to go to default, and let it know it was in a different car... They did that today, same result. I got the car from them to get 4 new tires (1 more thing for them to work with) and when I returned with it, they gave me the key back. When I asked why he said that he stands by his TCU diagnosis, and the code refernces the Duty C, but he was able to get the Duty C to cycle like it was supposed to based on the bulletins he was using. He continued on to tell me to take it to a dealer, they deal with them every day, and their equipment may detect something that he couldn't. They didn't charge me for any of it. I did ask about a tranny flush, the tech didn't think it was necessary. I do know (from checking the fluid when it first started happening) that it is not really red, so its not fresh fluid. Kinda reddish brownish. I think that my next step is to get the flush done, and see if it makes a bit of difference. If not, I'll take it to a dealer and have them work their magic. I just hope that they will honor thie Penn Warranty that came with the car... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 I stand by my original diagnoses that it wasnt the TCU. Flush only works if you have TB and no light. Skip the flush go to the dealer. If you have a failed solsnoid the more yuou drive the car the more your going to hurt the AWD clutch. If its a bad solenoid that are going to have psrtaily drain the fluid anyway. IN the mean time put the FWD fuse in and see if it makes a differnce. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unverviking Posted April 6, 2007 Author Share Posted April 6, 2007 IN the mean time put the FWD fuse in and see if it makes a differnce.nipper Tried that already, no difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 Tried that already, no difference There is your answer, there is a probelm with the solenoid, which a fluid flush wont have any effect on. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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