stevetone Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Ok, so I went to an online parts site and punched in all of the parts for my '95s timing belt replacement project. Actually, its more of a "timing belt - pulleys - tensioner - water pump - oil seals - radiator hoses - thermostat - gaskets" project. Even at their generous discount, it comes to $608 shipped. Ouch! Add to that 2 new torque wrenches and it' starts to sound like real money. I was thinking that it would be more like $400 for parts, but the tensioner and 4 pulleys (1 tensioner pulley, 1 toothed, 2 smooth) added about $320 to the total. Granted the engine will be completely new in front at 140,000 miles, but I had to prepare my wife that the total would be around (with extra tools and stuff) $850-$900. Her (brilliant) question to me was, "what would the dealer charge?" I couldn't give her a solid answer, but the parts alone retail for $760. Add to that what, 6 hours of labor at a good rate and I assured her it would be over $1,200. Now that's only a savings of $300 or so (yeah, I used the "but we'll have a couple of new torque wrenches" argument). Was I close, or did I misrepresent the total that a dealer would charge? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svxpert Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 <<Was I close, or did I misrepresent the total that a dealer would charge?>> not sure what dealers charge these days, depends on location i guess. they have the timing belt kit on ebay that had these included: (1) Timing Belt (1) Timing Belt Tensioner Bearing (2) Timing Belt Idler (1) Timing Belt Idler Sprocket (1) New OEM Water Pump (1) Water Pump Gasket (1) Valve Cover Gasket Kit (with Valve Cover Grommets) (2) Camshaft Seal Kits (with o'rings) (1) Front Crankshaft Seal (1) Oil Pump Seal Kit (Oil Pump Shaft Seal, O'Ring, and 'Mousehead' O'Ring) (1) A/C Belt (1) Alternator Belt that kit came in at just over $200. that should be fine for 1990-1995 application. you can re-use the old tentioner as long as you load it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eryque Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 If I remember right, Mitchell's labor guide says the timing belt job is 3.7 hours for the belt alone, but not any other seals. Multiply that by whatever their labor rate is ($75?) is $225 just in labor for the belt alone. That time is for the 2.2L engine and I think it's more if you have the 2.5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 What site are you looking at for those parts? I hope that's all OEM parts from a Subaru dealer for that price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I'm sure that for a dealer to do everything you are going to do. $1200 is a low ball estimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetone Posted August 20, 2007 Author Share Posted August 20, 2007 What site are you looking at for those parts? I hope that's all OEM parts from a Subaru dealer for that price. All OEM @ 1stsubaru.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 OK well that's not bad for OEM parts shipped. You do have some high dollar parts there. The tensioner alone is nearly $100. Water pump is maybe $74. That geared idler is over $50 I believe. Also it would probably cost even more than list price for the parts at the dealer, so your dealer estimate was probably generous. And right on, for any job you must factor in for at least a few new tools! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetone Posted August 20, 2007 Author Share Posted August 20, 2007 For anyone that's interested click here for a PDF file of the parts list. These parts are for a '95 Subaru Legacy. Unfortunately, the part numbers are not shown. Compiling this list of parts was made a lot easier by the numerous and invaluable posts on this board. Thanks to you all! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Keep away from ebay for any parts that are critical to the life of the car. 200.00 is just too little money, you get what you pay for. There are a lot of low quality parts on ebay. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerFahrer Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 You don't necessarily need to replace the pulleys. I've done two timing belt changes on my 2.2 Legacy and have reused the original pulleys every time. There's nothing wrong with them. My car has 174k on it by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankosolder2 Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Steve, You could always cut some corners...there are plenty of 200K Subarus with orginal idler pulleys. The '95 is a non interference engine, so worst case, if an idler wipes out, you're walking but there shouldn't be any actual engine damage. Why not evaluate the condition of the idlers and just change the ones with noise/ play? The tensioner is probably fine. Grossgary has some way of regreasing the idler pulleys...search for info. You can also carefully listen to the engine periodically. I suspect that a failing idler will give you fair warning by being noisy before failing. Supposedly, the geared idler wears the fastest. It's one of the smaller diameter idler wheels (hence it spins at the highest RPM.) Of course, there's also a lot to be said for replacing everything at once and doing a tip-top quality job. On the other hand, a '95 might be nearing the end of its service life..... Nathan Ok, so I went to an online parts site and punched in all of the parts for my '95s timing belt replacement project. Actually, its more of a "timing belt - pulleys - tensioner - water pump - oil seals - radiator hoses - thermostat - gaskets" project. Even at their generous discount, it comes to $608 shipped. Ouch! Add to that 2 new torque wrenches and it' starts to sound like real money. I was thinking that it would be more like $400 for parts, but the tensioner and 4 pulleys (1 tensioner pulley, 1 toothed, 2 smooth) added about $320 to the total. Granted the engine will be completely new in front at 140,000 miles, but I had to prepare my wife that the total would be around (with extra tools and stuff) $850-$900. Her (brilliant) question to me was, "what would the dealer charge?" I couldn't give her a solid answer, but the parts alone retail for $760. Add to that what, 6 hours of labor at a good rate and I assured her it would be over $1,200. Now that's only a savings of $300 or so (yeah, I used the "but we'll have a couple of new torque wrenches" argument). Was I close, or did I misrepresent the total that a dealer would charge? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I had this same work done last February by a private mechanic on my 99 OBW. The only thing that I did not have replaced was the tensioner and gear idler. Cost came to 4 hours labor @$50/hour, which totaled $200. Parts came to almost another $200. Total out the door came to $394.00. Is a gear idler, and tension pully replacement really needed for this job? I don't know if I got a good deal, or got cheated out of really needing to replace those missing items mentioned above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Well the geared idler from what I gather is the most likely one to need replacement, but it is the most expensive idler. The tensioner is typically good for another use if it is in good shape and the piston rod is recompressed properly. It depends what you're looking for. On the 105k belts if you want to take it as additional insurance that you won't have to go back in there until 210k then it is worth replacing all that stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetone Posted August 21, 2007 Author Share Posted August 21, 2007 Steve, You could always cut some corners...there are plenty of 200K Subarus with orginal idler pulleys. The '95 is a non interference engine, so worst case, if an idler wipes out, you're walking but there shouldn't be any actual engine damage. Why not evaluate the condition of the idlers and just change the ones with noise/ play? The tensioner is probably fine. Grossgary has some way of regreasing the idler pulleys...search for info. You can also carefully listen to the engine periodically. I suspect that a failing idler will give you fair warning by being noisy before failing. Supposedly, the geared idler wears the fastest. It's one of the smaller diameter idler wheels (hence it spins at the highest RPM.) Of course, there's also a lot to be said for replacing everything at once and doing a tip-top quality job. On the other hand, a '95 might be nearing the end of its service life..... Nathan Nathan, You make some good points about the idlers. Just reusing the 2 smooth ones saves over $100. Makes sense to inspect and only replace if needed. But about that last comment...I'm expecting at least another 10 years from her. She's just now getting broken in! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerFahrer Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 My 91 is still going strong. It needs some TLC that I haven't been able to give it due to my financial and time constraints, but I plan on taking care of that when I graduate college, which should be in December. Yeah, you can probably reuse the tensioner too. It's advisable to search on how to recompress it, but in a nutshell, I can tell you that it needs to be done SLOWLY. Honestly, though, yeah, it's going to cost some $$$ no matter which way you cut it, but the car will be set until 200k. I think it's definitely worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankosolder2 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Nathan, You make some good points about the idlers. Just reusing the 2 smooth ones saves over $100. Makes sense to inspect and only replace if needed. But about that last comment...I'm expecting at least another 10 years from her. She's just now getting broken in! Steve Steve, Well, I did say a '95 _might_ be nearing the end of its life! If it's not rusty, the sky is the limit.... seriously, if you are committed to keeping it another ten years, perhaps changing all the pulleys is the way to go. I just pulled apart a '95 legacy engine with 155K on it (rod knock due to someone running it low on oil due to leaks) and the factory crosshatch pattern was still clearly visable on the bores and no wear ridge whatsoever. That's impressive! Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerFahrer Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 I've only torn down two Subaru engines (my 79's heads are probably ready to be picked up from the machine shop, and my EJ18 will be a test EJ18/EJ205 hybrid as soon as I get EJ205 cam sprockets), but they both still have cross-hatching. And the EJ18 is known for sure to be over 200k miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avk Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Idler pulleys and timing kits, with or w/o water pump, are cheap on eBay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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