Datsunrides Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Keep us apprised of how the heads (when you get some) bolt on or what mods are needed. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostamojen Posted June 29, 2009 Author Share Posted June 29, 2009 I found an EA71 "fat case" shortblock for my motor build... Now I just need the 1400 "4-port" heads: The coolant passages on the 1400 head don't quite line up with the headgasket from the EA71 as has been mentioned, some small modification is probably required (just a little dremeling, doesn't seem like major work). The only other concern I have is the bellhousing... I have to use a 1400 bellhousing due to the bolt pattern of the 1100 being different, thus I apparently need a "spacer" for the flywheel, but I was thinking a 1400 flywheel might work HOWEVER i'm not sure if the 1400 flywheel will fit in the FF-1 transmission case properly. I might have to check that out (I do have a 1400 transmission to compare to the ff-1 transmission). BTW, the 1600 has a LARGE flywheel compared to the 1400/1100, so I can't use that or the 1600 bellhousings... Anyway, the 1400 bellhousing BARELY fits on there without leaving a gap. That spot I have pictured in the 2nd picture has MAYBE a 1mm overlap. I think just a lot of quality sealant would keep that area from leaking, but i'm not 100% about that. I'll try and do some headgasket comparisons here soon too. I need to order a waterpump, EA71 headgaskets, and a couple other things (I'm going OEM this time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 you will have to have some custom machine work done to use a 1400 flywheel on a 1600 crank, the 1400 has symetrical bolt holes, while the 1600 has the only-fits-1-way bolt pattern like the EA81s and EA82s. I do wonder if the 1400 crank would fit in the 1600... Oh I also finally got all my pics uploaded as well. Heres a link to all of them, Ill post a few here with some details. http://s130.photobucket.com/albums/p241/87monster/ -Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostamojen Posted June 29, 2009 Author Share Posted June 29, 2009 (edited) The crank will probably fit, considering the bearings are the same. I'll have to test that one though. However, i'm contemplating having a custom flywheel made now after seeing this: http://bmacm.tripod.com/id23.html BTW, What piston size should I get? Standard, or oversized and re-bore the block? Edited June 29, 2009 by Kostamojen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 I dont really know what would be best piston wise, maybe RAM engines can help a little with that info, they seem to be the leaders in hi-po small cube Boxers for the eviation comunity... At a premium price :-\ -Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostamojen Posted June 29, 2009 Author Share Posted June 29, 2009 I dont really know what would be best piston wise, maybe RAM engines can help a little with that info, they seem to be the leaders in hi-po small cube Boxers for the eviation comunity... At a premium price :-\ -Bill I guess the question is, whats the point of up-sizing pistons? Is it due to cylinder wall damage, or is purely for increased displacement? (I ask this cause either +.50 or standard sized pistons are availible) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 My assumption would be to make up for cylinder wear, there isnt enough meat in the block to bore them out to a diameter that would gain you condsiderable cubes, or power for that matter... -Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 yep, an overbore is to allow for a perfectly clean, round cylinder. depending on how many miles are on your block, you may want to do the same. the only way to know for sure is to take a few very precise measurements to make sure the cylinder walls are round, and aren't tapered at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostamojen Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 I'll have to have it measured, but from the looks of it, there is enough "rust" on the cylinder walls to where it will probably need boring. Looks like its had some water damage (and one of the valves is seized too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostamojen Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 Here are a couple pics of what I'm talking about: I'm going to split the block this weekend, and take it to the shop to get hot-tanked next week to see exactly what i'm working with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datsunrides Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I would find O/S pistons and bore it while you have it apart. I always have the cylinders on engines I rebuild bored out, especially if there are signs of water sitting in them. Same goes with decking the block and heads to true them up and resizing the rods w/ new rod bolts. I would say to also line hone the mains, but that is probably expensive on a Subaru engine. That way I know everything is either round or flat! Balancing would be nice if you can swing it. Cast pistons should be fine for the low power levels the engine will produce as would cast rings, but I would run moly if you can source them. My opinion is stay away from chrome rings. Who are you going to use for the machining? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostamojen Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) I would find O/S pistons and bore it while you have it apart. I always have the cylinders on engines I rebuild bored out, especially if there are signs of water sitting in them. Same goes with decking the block and heads to true them up and resizing the rods w/ new rod bolts. I would say to also line hone the mains, but that is probably expensive on a Subaru engine. That way I know everything is either round or flat! Balancing would be nice if you can swing it. Cast pistons should be fine for the low power levels the engine will produce as would cast rings, but I would run moly if you can source them. My opinion is stay away from chrome rings. Who are you going to use for the machining? Mark I was thinking a local shop that does all of our Subaru engines at work (EJ motors though). FYI, i'm still "new" to engine building of this kind. Most everything else i've done has been just gaskets or mods, so i'm not sure exactly whats required. I was thinking of purchasing these to start with: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Subaru-1595cc-50-4-Pistons-RY2666_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el1116QQhashZitem2ea316c3f5QQitemZ200304673781QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories The only "moly" ring sets i've seen have been for the 1.1l (cause its the same piston rings as a Chevy motor) Edited June 30, 2009 by Kostamojen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 yea, that's pretty nasty. might be able to just hone it out and use standard pistons......but if possible, I'd go for a slight overbore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenaissanceMan Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 FYI if your gonna dump some money into the motor.. the forged piston set that RAMengines.com sells will fit in your motor, and those come with moly rings btw. That is of course if you want to fork out the $515 for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Does the 1100 bellhousing bolt up to the 1400 tranny I sold you? Im just curious... -Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostamojen Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 Does the 1100 bellhousing bolt up to the 1400 tranny I sold you? Im just curious... -Bill Indeed it does. And as far as I can tell, the transmission cases are almost identicle in dimensions (minus the internal bearing sizes and such) The bellhousing won't bolt up to the 1400 or 1600 though. However, the 1400 bellhousing is better anyway, so I don't mind. I think a 1400 flywheel will fit, and I MIGHT be able to use the 1400 crank too. I'll have to check that out this weekend too. By any chance do you have the 1400 flywheel from that transmission? FYI if your gonna dump some money into the motor.. the forged piston set that RAMengines.com sells will fit in your motor, and those come with moly rings btw. That is of course if you want to fork out the $515 for them Thats interesting... I wasn't looking to do a EXPENSIVE build since well, there aren't a lot of options anyway with the build, but thats something to think about (especially since those ebay pistons are almost $100). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datsunrides Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 (edited) Unless you are going to add some form of boost to the engine, or NOS, (or not want a piston failure @ 10,000 feet!), there are better places to spend the money than on forged pistons. Moly rings should be readily available, but cast will work just fine. Actually, $25 a piston is not bad, especially if it comes with a new pin and rings. Let me know if you don't want them, as I would consider getting them. Mark Edited July 1, 2009 by Datsunrides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostamojen Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 Unless you are going to add some form of boost to the engine, or NOS, (or not want a piston failure @ 10,000 feet!), there are better places to spend the money than on forged pistons. Moly rings should be readily available, but cast will work just fine. Actually, $25 a piston is not bad, especially if it comes with a new pin and rings. Let me know if you don't want them, as I would consider getting them. Mark There are several sets online. Availability for that specific one says 3 sets are availible... just to let you know. RAM Performance does full EA81 engine builds too, so they know how to build an EA71 block properly and well, so they might be an option (Somewhat pricey, but I need to check prices at the local shop too in order to compare). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 You are in luck, I have the flywheel, pressure plate, and clutch from that 1400 trans I dont think Ill be needing it, Im hooking my motor to an RX trans -Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostamojen Posted July 2, 2009 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 You are in luck, I have the flywheel, pressure plate, and clutch from that 1400 trans I dont think Ill be needing it, Im hooking my motor to an RX trans -Bill You have a PM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostamojen Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 Front spacers (courtesy RenaissanceMan once again) installed I obviously need longer studs though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenaissanceMan Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 lol, I dont think I could have guessed the inside and outside diameters any better on that one. (I had more usable material this time so I had more choice as to the size of it) Workin on the bellhousing. I'll let you know what I come up with. -Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostamojen Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 lol, I dont think I could have guessed the inside and outside diameters any better on that one. (I had more usable material this time so I had more choice as to the size of it) Indeed! ABSOLUTELY perfect fit! I wondered how you did it, didn't realize you guessed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostamojen Posted July 25, 2009 Author Share Posted July 25, 2009 you will have to have some custom machine work done to use a 1400 flywheel on a 1600 crank, the 1400 has symetrical bolt holes, while the 1600 has the only-fits-1-way bolt pattern like the EA81s and EA82s. I do wonder if the 1400 crank would fit in the 1600. I was just fiddling around with the cranks from the 1100, 1400 and 1600 and also with the flywheels from all 3. I'm still not sure about that flywheel bolt pattern you mention, HOWEVER, all three cranks appear to be compatible, although the 1400 and 1600 are basically identical (while the 1100 appears to have a less-beefy construction IE narrower section widths but the bearings mount the same). What I think I will do is use the 1400 crank, but thats actually not the important piece, the important piece is the part that is attached to the crank that is what bolts to the flywheel. That piece can actually be removed and swapped out if one wished to do so (although in my case the cranks would be easier). On another note, i'm concerned about something else now, and that is the transmission main drive shaft and how it "goes into" the crankshaft. The 1600 has a wider spline pattern that isnt compatible with the 1400/1100 clutch (which is the same clutch and pressure plate). So If it does turn out that the 83 4-speed gears I have will fit in a 1300 FF-1 case (that I might be getting soon) I might have to use the main drive from the 1400 tranny and swap out all the gears on it (which might be quite difficult and possibly impossible). If that isn't possible, the only way would be to somehow modify the clutch to use the 1600's spline pattern... Oh, as far as flywheels go, Maudland mentioned in another thread (I think, might have been here though) that to use the 1400 bellhousing a "spacer" would be needed to use it with the FF-1 flywheel and transmission. But I'm curious now as to why using the 1400 flywheel won't work? I just checked the cases for the 1400 and for the FF-1, and they appear to have the same clearances... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STI_Wolf Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Wow, looks like it's going along very nicely. Subscribed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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