paulpicard Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 Well, I've had the 92 Loyale 5-sp 4wd wagon for a couple months now, and I've decided there are gremlins at work. I am aware of various maintenance procedures written up here re the efi stuff, but I'm also dealing with the following (intermittent) problems: cold start issues, clock!!!! (dead, sick, or healthy depending on the phase of the moon), ignition timing (ping/detonation at part-throttle tip-in) as well as no horn or backup lights at all. All o f this indicates problem connectors and/or grounds. So my question is: what's the best procedure to start with, before I go nuts trying random fixes. The car has 240,000 km's and is in decent shape considering it's a repainted eastern car. Passed emissions, runs well (but cool on the gauge) when it's warm, no leaks, good fuel economy. No maintenance history available, and I don't have a full body schematic to work with. So, where to start?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 Well, I've had the 92 Loyale 5-sp 4wd wagon for a couple months now, and I've decided there are gremlins at work. I am aware of various maintenance procedures written up here re the efi stuff, but I'm also dealing with the following (intermittent) problems: cold start issues, clock!!!! (dead, sick, or healthy depending on the phase of the moon), ignition timing (ping/detonation at part-throttle tip-in) as well as no horn or backup lights at all. All o f this indicates problem connectors and/or grounds. So my question is: what's the best procedure to start with, before I go nuts trying random fixes. The car has 240,000 km's and is in decent shape considering it's a repainted eastern car. Passed emissions, runs well (but cool on the gauge) when it's warm, no leaks, good fuel economy. No maintenance history available, and I don't have a full body schematic to work with. So, where to start?? problems you mentioned: Clock pinging/timing cold start No horn no backup lights I do not have a spot to tell you to look for bad connections in particular, outside of recommending new battery cables. Cheap insurance, ten or twelve bucks and you are good to go. Also, make sure that you can have the car running, and jiggle all the wires in your fusible link block without wreaking any havoc.. listen for smooth and uninterrupted engine operation. That being said, I will offer a link to the partial FSM files if you do not already have that, and offer these thoughts on your problems... these clocks are notorious for having crummy solder connections internally. If you have ANY skill with a soldering iron, you may be able to take it apart and repair the janky connection. The bad spot should be apparent; just look for a solder joint that looks browner and fouler than the others. Timing: have you checked the timing with a light, with the green connectors plugged in, and verified that its running at 20*BTDC? you shouldn't need a variable light at all, there are marks centered on 20* on the flywheel. Without a timing light, you cannot get the timing set accurately. Make SURE the green connectors are plugged in. cold start: two places to check here. First off, the IAC (Idle Air controller) It is a cylindrical job, attached to the front side of the throttle body with a large hose feeding into the top of it from the intake snorkus. The IAC is composed of two parts: a cylinder/valve that allows air past the throttle plate and into the intake manifold (or prevents it, depending on position) and a solenoid that operates that valve. You can take the entire affair off the front of the throttle body, disassemble it, clean it, check it for proper sealing, and if you have some extra lengths of wire around connect it to a battery and verify that it is working properly. The computer uses this to control air flow with the throttle closed (in other words, at idle.) Make sure the connections in the plug from the harness are clean and free of corrosion. The second thing to check for the cold start issue, is the CTS. This is a two-wire coolant temperature sensor mounted near the thermostat housing IIRC? I forget exactly where, the FSM will tell you. The CTS itself is usually good, but many fuel injected vehicles develop problems with running too rich from a corroded CTS connection. Again, make sure this is a good clean connection on this plug. There is a good chance that neither of those "cold start" leads will lead you to a solution, but it is DEFINITELY worth looking into. Horn, I have no clue. As for the back up lights, are you sure the switch is plugged in? Mine (3AT, yours may be different) is located on the passenger side, behind the catalytic converter. Again, two wires, one side goes to the vehicle, the other side goes into the tranny. If the switch is plugged in, and you know there are good bulbs in the back, check for voltage at the bulb socket with the car in reverse (obviously use the handbrake, AND chock the wheel, (AT) or just get an assistant that you trust VERY much :-p) and if you don't have it there, check for voltage at the switch. If no voltage at the switch, then the problem is upstream from there.. if there is voltage at the switch, but not at the back of the car, the problem is somewhere in between. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulpicard Posted November 3, 2007 Author Share Posted November 3, 2007 Daeron, thanks. Yes this gives me a starting point. I have a timing light. I assume the 20 deg. BTDC with the green plugs connected is the only adjustment - the computer doing the rest?. I will check the other things out as well. Battery cables are cheap maintenance, of course. Are there any other body groung points I should check? As for the clock, it'll be the last thing I spend any time on, but thought it might be an indicator of other electrical issues. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 the horns on these cars usually crap out with age - they are located behind the front bumper cover (at least on my GL they are...) if you remove the corner markers you can see them, but they are a pain to try to get to. would recommend you go get yourself a set of aftermarket horns and install them using the wiring for the original horns - or install new wire if you prefer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulpicard Posted November 4, 2007 Author Share Posted November 4, 2007 Heartless, (or anyone) can you give me a clue as to the (accessible) location and color code of the horn harness? Might not be the same as my 92 but I'm thinking the location wouldn't be too different than earlier EA-82's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 My info shows power for the horns comes from fuse #5 on a white wire that turns to green before getting to the horns. You should see power on the green wire if that part of the circuit is ok. A grn/blk wire ties back to the horn switch which makes the ground when pushed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 been a while since i did the horns on my GL - i did re-use the existing wiring on mine - works fine since it was the horns themselves that died. BTW left the old horns in place - too much of a pain to get to them to remove! LOL Will go check things out later today and get back to you on how i did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 None of those indicate electrical "gremlins" to me. Most of those items are failed components and aren't related. Follow some of the excelent sugestions above and treat each problem as a seperate item. None of those should be ground related but you may need to clean a few connectors - IE: the horns and the SPFI sensors. The clock is the easiest to fix. Pop it out and pop the cover off. Remelt the solder on all the circuit board connections (there's only a few). Clock will work perfectly again. They used poor flux or not enough heat to burn it off when those clocks were made (by a contractor, not by Fuji). GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueTrain Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 i would do the usual replacing of the plugs/wires/cap/rotor... does wonders with these cars. it could also fix the pinging and cold start issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulpicard Posted November 4, 2007 Author Share Posted November 4, 2007 Thanks, all. gd, I used the term "gremlins" just to indicate my frustration at the intermittent nature of some issues. I know there are fixes for them and I will indeed follow everyones very helpful advice. Your clock fix makes sense!! Cougar, the green-black to the horn button is the same as mine so I'll go from the fuse and hook up some Dodge horns I have laying around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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