legacyak Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I'm having the head gaskets done in my 00 OBW done next week. The car has been taken good care of and had the timing belt and water pump changed at 100,000 miles. I do not think the tensioner for the timing belt was changed at that time. It now has 157,000 miles on it. I'm having the timing belt changed with the head gaskets. I'm not doing the water pump as it should still have plenty of life left in it, and I am spending enough doing the clutch too. Does the tensioner have to be changed? Also, how much more labor would my mechanic feasibly charge me for putting on a new tensioner when he's doing the head gaskets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 yes, replacing the tensioner is not a bad idea at all. labor should be minimal, the old one has to come off and be compressed, you could almost argue that a new one is easier and quicker to install since they come pre-compressed and pinned! more importantly than the tensioner is the fact that all of the timing belt pulleys have 150,000+ miles and 8 years on them and you're expecting them to last to 250,000 miles (the next timing belt change). it is fairly normal for at least one to be low on grease, a good mechanic can tell and will replace those if you ask. usually the lower sprocketed (toothed) pulley is the one that's the worst of them all. they are very expensive from subaru, i myself actually replace them all but i buy aftermarket kits that have all the tensioners at a reasonable price so i don't have to guess which ones might be okay for another 100,000 miles or pay ridiculous dealer prices. with these long intervals it's hard to say which pulleys are good for 100k, 200k, or 300k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Replace the tensioner, the water pump and the toothed follower. The money you spend on these parts now, could save you a big bill later. The smooth followers are "optional", as you can hear which ones are getting tired. If they begin to fail halfway to the next cambelt swap, they will start to whine and screech - giving you advance notice to replace them pronto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrturbo Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I would deff do it. Just about anyone you pull apart will have a leaking tensioner. The geared idler mentioned above should deff be replaced also, I have timing covers off with only 20k miles and the thing sounded horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 more importantly than the tensioner is the fact that all of the timing belt pulleys have 150,000+ miles and 8 years on them and you're expecting them to last to 250,000 miles (the next timing belt change). my legacy has 261,000 miles. the belt let go 4,000 miles ago. i re-used the original tensioner. the tensioner is original for all i know, from what i was told they rarely fail. it's your call, but i ould only replace it if it has obvoius sighns of wear or has been squealing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacyak Posted December 4, 2007 Author Share Posted December 4, 2007 Where is a good place to buy after market timing belt pullies and tensioners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Where is a good place to buy after market timing belt pullies and tensioners? If you're looking for aftermarket parts, possibly the kits on eBay. At that mileage, if you're planning to keep the vehicle, I'd replace all the idlers, tensioner, definitely the water pump, the cam seals, crank seal, reseal oil pump and replace o-ring, make sure oil pump screws aren't backing out (on my '00obw three or four of the screws were very loose). I'd compare the cost for OEM vs aftermarket; for this job it might be a couple hundred dollars more for OEM but in my view if you're keeping the vehicle for another 100,000 miles very worth it for the peace of mind of oem components. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Where is a good place to buy after market timing belt pullies and tensioners? ebay, thepartsbin.com, and rockauto (great prices sometimes but i'd recommend avoiding them to non-mechanically/subaru minded persons as their parts listings are confusing and dead wrong some times). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacyak Posted December 5, 2007 Author Share Posted December 5, 2007 I'm debating about replacing the upper idler and lower idler now. You guys have convinced me to at least replace the tensioner and the pulley idler. I'm not sure about the upper and lower idlers though. It's $95 for the two of them. I know it would be really expensive if one of them went bad and I'd have to replace them. But to save $100, how often do they really go bad? Like I said I'm definitely doing the tensioner and the geared idler, but I don't know about the smooth ones. How often do they go bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 not very often - but on an interference engine that has a really good chance of making another 100,000 miles it's good practice to go for it. if your pulleys seize yo'ure looking at buying a new engine or a very expensive rebuild. you could inspect them and then possibly inspect them at 50k to see how they are doing, but if you can't do it yourself you probably won't because it requires removing the timing belt again, and you probably won't pay for that. why not go with an aftermarket kit, you get everything you need for far less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 If your upper and lower idlers don't have a lot of freeplay in the bearing, but maybe just feel raspy, you could maybe use grossgary's regrease method; that's virtually no cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 good point - inspection is your first move. they may spin nice and smooth like a new pulley should. if not, then start visiting replacement or the zero cost regrease method posted in the USRM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I was "told" they felt fine, when the belt was done approx 30 Kmi before this happened Two heads with valve problems later, the 100 GWs looks pretty cheap. Your call Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Hiya skip.... I'm pretty sure the idlers are backwards there. The idler that failed looks like the single row type...that position needs a double row/black idler. I think they were reinstalled reverse of proper position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Hey thanks Porc, as many times as I have posted that picture you are the first to mention this. Big Ol' Thanks as that 'splains why it failed. (BTWI did not do the belt change, the damage is why I got the car cheap) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacyak Posted December 5, 2007 Author Share Posted December 5, 2007 So the parts I'll need are: NO. 13033AA042, PART NO. 13073AA142, PART NO. 13073AA190, AND PART NO.13085AA060 correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Hiya skip.... I'm pretty sure the idlers are backwards there. The idler that failed looks like the single row type...that position needs a double row/black idler. I think they were reinstalled reverse of proper position? They might have both been the black double row idlers. It's used in both positions now from what I've heard. Also here is what can happen when the idler gear fails: More pictures here and here if anyone is interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 also revealing is the depth of the lip, you can see a definitive difference in the lip height. and giving what he just said about using the same pulley in both locations, it looks like that is what was used. of all the problems swapping those two nearly identical pulleys would have, i don't know that this would be it. so long as the pulley is lined up properly to the belt and is able to rotate with the belt, it would at most artificially change the timing. if it wasn't lined up with the belt, then it should destroy the belt, not the pulley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 So the parts I'll need are: NO. 13033AA042, PART NO. 13073AA142, PART NO. 13073AA190, AND PART NO.13085AA060 correct? not sure. these guys have an okay parts look up function: http://www.subarupartsforyou.com/ i'd call the supplier and a subaru dealer to verify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Wow that toothed idler wanted to get out of the timing cover something fierce! For the red single row vs black double row idlers, yes when I ordered those OEM idlers earlier this year for my '96, I received two double row/black idlers. The black/double row can handle more load than the red/single row. The upper idler definitely appears to have more load on it; the lower idler not so much. I don't think the red/single row idler is capable of withstanding the load of being in the upper position long term. It is kind of hard to tell from the pic if the upper idler is red or black. Unless the red idler were replaced with black at some point in the engine's life, or came from the factory with two black idlers, then it is reasonable to figure the upper idler is red, since a black one is definitely in the lower position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnwolftrack Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I found a picture of my '98 during dissassembly (forgot I even took photos), and it shows the same thing, orange pulley on the bottom, black on top. Regarding the original member's questions about the tensioner, it has to come off anyway for timing belt re installation, so there is zero extra labor for putting in a new one. You might decide you don't need the pulleys in advance, but once work begins, you may find out that yours are actually worn and you have to replace them anyway. If you didn't order the idlers and work began, your vehicle will probably be down for a few more days while the extra parts are ordered (unless someone local has them in stock). You really ought to do the water pump while you are in there too. It's way too much work to have to do over again if your existing pump fails. This pump is not dangling off the front of the motor for easy access like so many other vehicles have it. And on that note, I'd be hesitant to recommend an aftermarket water pump, just because I've had too many problems with them (on non subi's though). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Is it just me or is the black one actually the single row bearing idler? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I'm pretty sure black is the double row. I have my old ones laying somewhere I could double check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 It is, nevermind. You can see them both pretty clearly here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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