mebirkle Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Howdy folks. This is my first post so be easy on me. :-\ Here's the situation... I just picked up a 2001 Outback Limited Sedan (2.5L) with 107K. The maintenance records do not show any timing belt work done on the car as of yet. I believe the change is recommended at 120K miles (please correct me if I'm wrong). Q... What is the school of thought for Subarus regarding when to change these belts? Is this an interference engine? I'm inclined to get it changed ASAP as I'm a bit paranoid. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Hi mebirkle and to the board! The timing belt change interval is 105k miles or 105 months. Yes that the EJ25 phase II (sohc) and is a valve to piston interference engine. If the timing belt breaks it will likely bend valves and possibly ding pistons. (i.e $$$) If you do not know if it was changed, you don't have much choice but to change it now. It is quite possible it has not been changed. Sometimes the dealer may tell the seller it needs to be changed, which at a dealer can be pricey, so the person decides to trade it in or sell it instead. There are several things that are very prudent to do when changing the belt. The timing belt should be Subaru OEM. You can get OEM Subaru parts from Subaru dealers who sell parts online for less than walking in to the typical local dealer. just a few examples http://www.1stsubaruparts.com http://www.subaruparts.com http://www.subarupartsforyou.com http://www.subaru-parts-dealer.com http://www.subarugenuineparts.com Other things to replace: accessory drive belts (a/c and power steering/alt), water pump and gasket (will not last another 105k miles), front cam seals, reseal oil pump and replace o-ring and front crank seal, replace geared/toothed timing belt idler near water pump and at least check other idlers and tensioner for wear. Also valve lash should be checked at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hohieu Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Porcupine gave you a thorough rundown of things to do for this service. It might be wise to pop off the T-belt cover on the driver's side to check the condition of the belt. If it looks old, it's likely that the service was never performed. It's likely, that the water pump, and accessory belts will also be new(er), if the T-belt was replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebirkle Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 Thanks for the responses. I have sent off requests for part quotes to the list of subaru parts dealers. I believe that all of the belts, but timing belt as far as I could tell, have been changed last year based on the records that I have. The original owner that traded the car had all service done at the dealership so I'm pretty sure that the service would have been noted. It kills me that the dealer stated that the timing belt would not have to be changed until 120K miles. It may have been a sale rep that didn't know or they were just trying to trap me in. Oh well. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 If you don't live in a hot climate and there isn't engine oil leaking onto the timing belt, it can very well last to 120k miles+. But you are on borrowed time past 105k miles/105 months and the expense of repairing the damaged enigine _plus_ timing belt if it breaks/jumps enough timing is far more than the timing belt alone. Many of those parts dealers you do not have to send them an e-mail asking for a quote for the parts. You can browse their online catalog for what you need. Many Subaru dealers selling parts online have somewhat close pricing anyway. My suggestion is to find a large volume Subaru parts dealer geographically close to you, as shipping will cost less and you will get your parts faster, and order all your parts from the same place (if you get satisfactory service). That way you build a relationship with that dealer. Not to be neglected is the possibility that your local Subaru dealer will give you a break on parts prices if you ask them. Many local dealers don't stock a lot of parts though, but if they are close to a Subaru Regional Distribution Center, they can get them for you in a day or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebirkle Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 I hope that you are right about the possibility of going 120K without breakage. I'm going to put this high on the priority list after I get the warped rotors replaced with slotted/drilled ones. I'll call my local dealer and see what they have to offer for pricing. I'll ask for prices for my EJ25 Phase II. I'll get the list of part numbers when I place my order and post it to this thread so a parts list is available for all. I'm going to ask for prices on: timing belt accessory drive belts water pump and gasket front cam seals oil pump o-ring, front crank seal timing belt idler thermostat/gasket Does this list sound accurate? I'll refresh my coolant, replace hoses while I'm in there, and also do the thermostat. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Oh yes good catch, thermostat and gasket are a good call. Those should be OEM parts. There is a big difference between the Subaru OEM thermostat and aftermarket ones, there are pics available to show the difference. Drilled rotors will work ok for typical daily driver/street use. But there is a reason drilled rotors are not used in racing applications. A good value for a Subaru daily driver are Brembo blank (not slotted, not drilled) rotors avialabe at tirerack and other places. I can tell you rough prices on the OEM parts you are seeking: timing belt $70 accessory drive belts $35 for both water pump and gasket $75 front cam seals $5 each (two total) oil pump o-ring, $3 front crank seal $4 timing belt idler $105 thermostat/gasket $15 don't forget geared/toothed idler near water pump - it is the most likely to fail, ~$60. Someone just posted a failure of this idler on this board here. If you do the valve clearance check/adjustment (which you should while doing timing belt), you need a valve cover gasket kit with two valve cover gaskets, spark plug hole seals, and ~10 bolt hole washers, ~$60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Might as well replace the spark plugs with NGK spark plugs and OEM plug wires (or magnecor) if you don't know when last replaced. You can get the NGK spark plugs anywhere (does not have to be from the dealer). The plug wires should be from the dealer or get magnecor. Don't forget the typical stuff, fuel filter, air filter, brake fluid flush, steering fliud, ATF, etc. Sorry I am a car maintenance NUT. It is expensive to have all this done at once at a dealer or shop; if you're a wrencher or have the time/space/tools/etc to become one you can save some $ and have fun doing it. Best to have a second/backup vehicle if you want to get into serious work of your own; it takes a lot of stress off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebirkle Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 I have already ordered all four zinc plated rotors drilled/slotted with semi-metallic pads for $210 off of http://www.r1concepts.com. It just seemed like a deal I couldn't beat. I'm not a racer so it shouldn't be a problem. I just want rotors that will last a little longer than OEM as my research is telling me there is a history of brake issues with this car. Good call on checking valve clearance. I'll add the valve cover gaskets and bolt hole washers to my list. Is the geared tooth idler in my list already or is this another idler. Based on your post and the part price I would say that this is one I missed. I'll just add it. The brake pedal is a bit flat/soft right now. I may have to investigate this a bit after the timing belt is done. Here's the list again... timing belt $70 accessory drive belts $35 for both water pump and gasket $75 front cam seals $5 each (two total) oil pump o-ring, $3 front crank seal $4 timing belt idler $105 thermostat/gasket $15 geared tooth/idler near water pump $60 valve cover gaskets, spark plug hole seals, bolt hole washers $60 wow, that's a lot of mulah. ~$500 in parts I'm sure it's going to be worth it for the peace of mind. I have a guy that I may use for labor. He'll charge $200 for everything which isn't bad at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 The list looks good so far. wow only $200 for labor, that is a DEAL!!! There are tons of free articles on http://www.endwrench.com (official Subaru site) about how to do a lot of this work if needed. The timing belt geared/toothed idler near the water pump is different from the timing belt tensioner. There are also two other idlers on the timing belt, but those are usually ok, but should be checked for bearing smoothness/freeplay. The timing belt tensioner (the ~$105 part) can often be reused. If reused, recompression of the pin must be done veerryyy slowly. Personally I replace all the idlers and the tensioner on an interference soob engine just peace of mind that way. Here's all the idlers and the tensioner: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 For coolant, get either OEM genuine SUBARU coolant, or use something at least similar i.e. BASF formula G-05 licensed to zerex and some others. do NOT use GM dexcool or any similar dexclones (i.e prestone all makes/all models). And DEFINITELY put in the Subaru OEM coolant conditioner. That 2.5L sohc engine could develop the external head gasket peeping leak, and you may have additional warranty coverage if the conditioner is installed at EVERY coolant change and documented. Register free at my.subaru.com and see if the recall for the coolant conditioner was done at the dealer. It only covers to 100k miles but sometimes Subaru will cover head gasket leaks beyond that anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 that 120k line from the sales rep was pure BS, he was just trying to sell you the car. did you buy this from a dealer? if so i'd go back and try to work out a deal. had you known ahead of time i guarantee they would have gladly replaced that belt for you for free or for the cost of the part. they do that all the time, but will try and get away with not doing it if they can. they might give you a cut rate ,though that certainly would have been easier before you bought it. i've done this before as well, asked about maintenance items before laying out the cash. they usually oblige. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98obster Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 ^^^ Are the Ebay "master timing belt kits" the real deal-i.e., OE correct part # etc. seems like $200 is reasonable for the kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 ^^^ Are the Ebay "master timing belt kits" the real deal-i.e., OE correct part # etc. seems like $200 is reasonable for the kit. yes, i've bought and used a few. they aren't OEM Subaru parts, at least the timing belt is not. not sure about the pulleys. another option is to regrease the pulleys, that's basically free. there's a write-up on how to do that in the USRM, linked at the top right corner of this page. you are at the risk of your own skills here so proceed very cautiously, i don't recommend this on an interference engine unless it's done very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT95 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 AFTER transfering a used ubaru into your name, aren't you able to register the VIN at Subaru and access all maintenance/repairs ever done to the car at a Subaru garage? Just a side thought when people get a used Sube and are curious about actual maintenance/work done previously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Yes, you can register it at http://my.subaru.com If you just bought the vehicle, they won't be able to verify your ownership through normal channels, so they will e-mail you and ask for proof of ownership before letting you see the vehicle's history. I scanned the signed over title and my registration and sent it to them and they gave me access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebirkle Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 I did buy the car from a scooby doo dealer and they did all the work on the car. They said their system is not connected to the corporate Subaru system so their records aren't accessible everywhere. I don't know if this is true or not. They did provide all service records for the car since new that were performed at the dealership. I see an "all belt" replacement done at 80K but the price doesn't look like the timing belt was included. I'll try my.subaru.com and see what I come up with. I'm getting about 313.21 for all of the parts. Here is the working parts list so far. Timing Belt 13028AA21B accessory drive belts 73323AC000 & 809218260 water pump and gasket 21111AA110 & 21114AA051 front cam seals 806732150 oil pump o-ring 10991AA001 front crank seal 806733030 timing belt idlerS - 13085AA060 (W/TEETH) 13073AA190 13073AA142 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Compare prices with subarugenuineparts.com or just PM subiegal before you walk into a dealership and buy all that stuff. It tends to cost much less online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebirkle Posted January 19, 2008 Author Share Posted January 19, 2008 Thanks Jamal. I am actually working with subarugenuineparts.com for these parts. I also added valve cover gaskets to the list as I'm going to check valve clearance and I'll add all the little gaskets/seals for bolts/spark plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebirkle Posted February 6, 2008 Author Share Posted February 6, 2008 Thanks Jamal. I am actually working with subarugenuineparts.com for these parts. I also added valve cover gaskets to the list as I'm going to check valve clearance and I'll add all the little gaskets/seals for bolts/spark plugs. 1 more addition to the list. I added a tensioner which we forgot. That's a $105 addition to the list of parts. I'm up to $420 in parts for a timing belt. I hope I'm not being to cautious. I guess there could be worse things. Ciao! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I think it depends on your outlook. I replaced all that stuff on my '00obw too. If you do plant to keep the vehicle another 105k miles I think why not just do it all now. Just a note on the idlers 13073AA190, 13073AA142 (they're the two idlers on the left in the pic below) - you will probably get two of the same idler (double row, black), don't worry, the red single row bearing idler has been superceded by using the same double row black in both positions. Tensioner: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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