charm Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I have a 97 Impreza L wagon with an auto, 143,000 on the odometer. I bought it at 60,000 miles and it's been a good car. Well, it needs stuff as all cars with 150,000 miles do. It also needs a few more things. The things I know it needs add up to about $4k it might also need an engine rebuild or swap if the engine flush doesn't solve my oil consumption issues. What it needs, including maintenance items, is... its 150,000 mile service distibutor and wires new axle new tires steering rack and probably a rebuild on the clutch pack (the tranny flush got rid of the torque bind for about 15,000 miles) Some of this I could do myself, most of it I just don't have the time for. I've done great with this car, basic maintenance, one set of tires, one axle, new struts, a new rear wiper motor, and that's about it. When do I cut bait and go get me a newer outback? After what year did they fix the head gasket issues on the 2.5s? Is the H6 as reliable as the 4s? Is there a particular model to stay away from? Thanks for your help in this stressful moment for me. I was really enjoying not having a car payment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnlyfnd Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 The H6 is as reliable as the 4cyl. Headgaskets were fixed late 2003. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 i'd plan on enjoying more car-payment free living if i were you. that's a good car and with some solid maintenance should be good for another 100,00. most of the items you mentioned are rather minor, typical maintenance items and could be addressed over time and some yourself possibly. oil leaks are very common and not terribly difficult to address - a few seals behind the timing belt and the valve covers. worst case is maybe the valve seals are leaking? engine consumption is rare on these blocks. it's unlikely you need engine replacement. this is probably a good topic for a dedicated thread, helping you figure that out. the rear transfer clutches aren't necessarily the end of the world either. that can be fixed without removing the trans. you also have the option of driving it in FWD mode. not a bad move really to avoid payments or a large repair bill. not too mention if you really need good snow traction then snow tires are the way to go anyway. otherwise the H6 is a great motor. EJ25 head gaskets have been beat to death a zillion times, search and read up there are no definitive or conclusive answers to "when" "why" "how" on those. the later the better - 1996-2003 certainly have issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charm Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 i'd plan on enjoying more car-payment free living if i were you. that's a good car and with some solid maintenance should be good for another 100,00. most of the items you mentioned are rather minor, typical maintenance items and could be addressed over time and some yourself possibly. oil leaks are very common and not terribly difficult to address - a few seals behind the timing belt and the valve covers. worst case is maybe the valve seals are leaking? engine consumption is rare on these blocks. it's unlikely you need engine replacement. this is probably a good topic for a dedicated thread, helping you figure that out. the rear transfer clutches aren't necessarily the end of the world either. that can be fixed without removing the trans. you also have the option of driving it in FWD mode. not a bad move really to avoid payments or a large repair bill. not too mention if you really need good snow traction then snow tires are the way to go anyway. otherwise the H6 is a great motor. EJ25 head gaskets have been beat to death a zillion times, search and read up there are no definitive or conclusive answers to "when" "why" "how" on those. the later the better - 1996-2003 certainly have issues. The engine isn't leaking the oil, it's burning it. The running theory after checking all of the inexpensive suspects, is that the rings are gunked up and the engine flush will cure that...we'll see. They are all basic maintenance items and there is nothing on the list that I could not do...there are very few things on the list that I have time to do myself. Hence the mechanic rates. I've read here several times that driving in FWD for extended periods is not good for the car. I suppose there are varying opinions on just about everything. And I agree, most are typical maintenance problems. My issue is with the additive value of everything. Dealing with torque bind and mystery fuel consumption in addition to two or three grand worth of maintenance...that's the issue. To have a mechanic do most of this stuff, at least the time consuming items, I'm still looking at $6k to $8k (assuming the rings are shot). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aircraft engineer Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 hey - want to sell it? Send me a PM - I just got done working on one for the sister and I kinda like the li'l beastie I'm a puyalluper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 i see, that stinks. odd that it would be consuming that much oil at this age but there's always a bad nut in the batch. just to be informative in case you change your mind: you can get a used EJ engine installed for $1,000 or less. probably a trans too. EJ engines and trans are cheap - low demand. i bought an engine and trans for $300 last fall, both with 100k and warranties. i would bet you could get both for $500 and have it installed for $1,000 - $1,500. FWD mode will not kill the car, listen to someone with extensive experience in the subject, not arm chair people talking theory. i've driven auto's and manuals for extended periods of time like this (currently have one now). i know plenty of others that have as well, you won't find a statistically viable amount of people that have actually had problems with it. i doubt you'll find any and if you do it likely was caused by something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse001 Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Just an off the wall question from an off the wall guy.... Is the back end of your car turning black & oily between washes? If it's not, I'd lay odds on it leaking oil, rather than burning it. Remember Subies don't leak, they mark thier territory. My best redneck advice, before deciding that it's burning oil is, to slide a large piece of cardboard under the motor after a nice, hard flogging. Let it sit overnight, then pull it out & look at it. If there's oil on it, as Adam Savage says, "there's your problem". :cool: I gather, that you trust your mechanic, and that's a good thing. I'm not taking anything away from him, but a little self diagnosis goes a long way in the wallet. Hope I didn't step on your toes, just trying to save you some bux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aircraft engineer Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 of course, the OTHER easy way out is to find someone with an exhaust analyzer (pollution tester) and test it. HC emissions show up RIGHT NOW even at idle (particularly at increased throttle right AFTER idle - when the smoke is thick) That and actually oil burning will show up on the PLUGS as well. Pretty easy to see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnlyfnd Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Plugs are the window into the motor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charm Posted March 14, 2008 Author Share Posted March 14, 2008 I'll pull a plug or two and check it out. The drip check doesn't work well with this car because it is dripping...power steering fluid. I've tried the cardboard test and, well, all I can see is the power steering fluid. The oil comsumption is but one issue the car has (the most costly to fix, sure, but just one). The steering rack, the clutch pack, and the 150k maintenance items all add up too. I would be ready to spend the money on the maintenance stuff if it weren't for all of the none maintenance stuff. But I'll pull the plugs before making any serious decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 HC emissions show up RIGHT NOW the HC is not definitive. i've seen EJ25 headgasket failures that pass this test. it has stumped more than one mechanic. of course a positive reading is bad...but a negative does not mean your head gaskets are good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSRBIKER Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 I'm in the same boat with my 97 Outback. I have no major problems though, I am currently replacing my cats(had them off another car) and mid pipe so the exhaust will all be fresh. Little things like trim and a new foglight are next but after that I think I am going to sell her in about 6 months. I like having no car payment but i am looking for a 2005-6 Outback XT, my brothers friend is a wholesaler so I'll get a good deal when I pull the trigger. You can try and look for someone on this board that will work on your car for alot less than a Subaru dealer, plus this person is probably more knowledgeable than a dealer. Tally up your expected expenses vs what your new car payment will be and see when the break even point is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schlit Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 If you think your particular car is a lemon, then dump it. If not then keep paying until she's good again. I would consider $4000 in non routine maintenance repairs and engine swap for oil consumption at 150,000 mi as a lemon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnlyfnd Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 A lemon is 3 problems of the same sort not being fixed after those 3 attempts to fix it. BTW, not to hijack; I have a 2005 LL bean I'm looking to sell to get myself into a STi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT95 Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 $4,000 is a lot to sink into an 11 yr old car. Especially when you consider that after that investment, you still have an 11 yr old car w/ 150k on it. I bet you could probably keep her going for less than that, but that's nothing more than an assumption. You need to decide how much you love the car and how reliable it will be after your fixer-up investment. If you love the car and want to keep it for several more years, then stick with it. If you see yourself trying to sell it or trade it two years from now, then I wouldn't bother investing that much into it. Realistically, what could you sell the car for right now, as is? Add that to $4,000 and see what that alone would buy you for a newer car. Gives you some perspective on the car's worth to you after that potential invetment. Unless you buy a pretty new car, you typically have to buy things like tires and brakes and often a tune-up soon after purchasing anyway. Plus, you don't know the history of that car's maintenance either. All that's to be considered too. Now, I've got a 95 Legacy wagon that's at 225,000 miles right now and no major repairs whatsoever in the 5 years I've been driving it, so these cars can last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reveeen Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Is there EVER a time to sell? I guess it all depends, if you are at "the top of the heap", or at "the bottom of the heap". Me, I'm an old junk man. I buy junk, my '91 Legacy sport sedan cost me $425, my '92 Loyale cost me $60. Neither car is "perfect", or will EVER be "perfect", but I have a bunch of fun. The way I look at it is: If I go out and buy a "new" one, and have to borrow the money, my payments will be $400-$500 a month. (I don't borrow money and haven't since the "troubles" in 1971, far worse than the "troubles" today, bank interest rates were 32%). So if I look at buying a $400 car, and dump $1600 in it to make a driver out of it, I am, in effect, spending 5 months payments. If I get 6 months out of that car, and it "kacks", and I have to walk away, leaving it on the side of the road, I'm "up" $400. If I had a Subaru with a clapped out motor, along with a bunch of other clapped out stuff, I would put a "real" value on it, what I could sell it for. To the "real" value I would add the cost of repair, then divide by $400, giving me a time factor in months. If I figured I could get a greater time than that number out of it then I would consider it a "fixer", if not, then it is time somebody else owns it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 I went through this with Blu when he threw a rod on a road trip at 181,000 miles. I decided to fix Blu due to cost. A new car would need higher insurance, and then there are the monthly payments. Also I would have to pay sales tax, and you never recoup that. If the body is solid, and everything works (like on blu except for one seat heater), I would suggest fix. Also god forbid you loose your job and get behind on things, they can take your nice new car, where if you charge the repair, they cant take your wheels. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene J Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 I usually keep a car until it starts degrading the neighborhood. Or until I feel I can't just get in it and drive across the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT95 Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 I usually keep a car until it starts degrading the neighborhood. Dude, that comment had me rolling... (I think every neighborhood has one of those guys.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reveeen Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 +10 on degrading a neighborhood with rusty bits of Subaru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charm Posted March 20, 2008 Author Share Posted March 20, 2008 It is degrading the neighborhood and I need a bigger car. A new(er) Outback LTD has called my name and I am powerless against its call. While I like the car, it's the perfect set of maintenance records that has me loving the car most of all. It being a 2000, I'm a little concerned about the HG, but I know that the coolant conditioner has been used at every radiator flush since the recall so things should be in decent shape despite the 125,000 miles. Am I just asking for more of the same problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screwbaru2 Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 yes, I'm going through the same thing now with my 97 outback. With the $ I spent buying it then the $ I spent on another 2.5 (oh USMB where were you?) plus maintaince, now the 2nd 2.5 is junk I'll have about a $10,000 97 outback with 250K. The insurance is cheap the town taxes are cheap and I have no car payment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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