meddler Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 I've got to do a clutch job sometime in the near future on my 1998 Legacy Outback (2.5, 180,000 miles) and have read several times that it can be easier to pull the motor instead of the transmission. I'm just looking for some opinions on this. The motor option is starting to look appealing - I can avoid pulling most of my crusty exhaust system and I've heard that getting the tranny back in can be difficult. Anyone done it both ways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOthis Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 i have had the trans out of my 96 lego 3 times and i pulled the trans for all of them......i just unbolted my exhaust system at the heads, unplugged the o2 sensors and undid the hangers and i just pulled the complete exhaust system still together off the car.....i think it is prety amazing on my car almost every nut and bolt with the exception of a few was a 14mm.......and you know every time i did it i improved little by little......the only awkward part for me was tilting the engine so far when i had to put the trans back in to get it in alignment into the pilot bearing......so i would recommend pulling the transmission instead of the engine.....but obviously either will work.....oh when i did my clutch for the first time my subaru had 179,500 miles on it and the flywheel was all heat scored so instead of machining it i just bought a new one off of http://www.autopartwarehouse.com ... the brand was sachs and it was only about i think $80.00..... im sure you know while you have it opened up to do the clutch....replace the pilot bearing release bearing release bearing clips (which hold the bearing onto the fork) rear main seal (though i dont think they are that prone to leaking) rear seperator plate (not to sure if the 2.5 L. have one or not or if its plastic or metal) pressure plate clutch disc machine or purchase new flywheel im sure there is something i missed and someone else will chime in...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wondercow2 Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 I pulled the engine. I think it was probably a mistake, because the only engine work I did while it was out was the rear main seal, and a re-seal of the oil separator plate (stupid dealership ordered the old plastic part #, and waited days and days to tell me what I already knew - that there was a new part, and that I had to order it... morons!!! So I installed the old plate with fresh sealant). If you have a timing belt or headgaskets to do, do it all at once. If not, pull the transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meddler Posted May 7, 2008 Author Share Posted May 7, 2008 I should also mention that I have a lift and transmission jack available - if that makes anything any easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru360 Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 I've got to do a clutch job sometime in the near future on my 1998 Legacy Outback (2.5, 180,000 miles) and have read several times that it can be easier to pull the motor instead of the transmission. I'm just looking for some opinions on this. The motor option is starting to look appealing - I can avoid pulling most of my crusty exhaust system and I've heard that getting the tranny back in can be difficult. Anyone done it both ways? I like to pull the engine. It's easier for me. But I don't have a lift. I leave the accessories (ps/ac/alt) connected, unbolt the brackets from the block and swing them out of the way, drain coolant, pull radiator, unplug 3 wires, a few hoses, unbolt the exhaust at the heads, unbolt motor mounts and engine to trans bolts and it's out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 I've done the job twice. Once by pulling the transmission with an "old" transmission jack and jackstands. It took me 10 hours. With an engine hoist and pulling the engine it took me 6. '91 Legacy wagon. I'll never do it pulling the tranny again unless someone donates a lift and great transmission jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOthis Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 edrach-man what car was that....the first time i did my clutch/flywheel the whole job took me 6 hours.....the second time i did it it took me 4 and the third time i did it took me about 3......and i did it on jackstands in my driveway.....were the bolts like rusted on or somethin?..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 edrach-man what car was that....the first time i did my clutch/flywheel the whole job took me 6 hours.....the second time i did it it took me 4 and the third time i did it took me about 3......and i did it on jackstands in my driveway.....were the bolts like rusted on or somethin?.....I didn't post it to demonstrate speed mechanics; I posted it to indicate a difference in time using two techniques. I'm glad you're so speedy; some people are faster than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 I should also mention that I have a lift and transmission jack available - if that makes anything any easier.yes, equipment and helpers make a big difference. i've done it both ways many, many times. i'll give you the run down and maybe this will help understand why so many people have differeing opinions here. the transmission comes out really quick, way quicker than the motor. i've had them out in 1/2 hour, actually the first manual trans i pulled was out in a half an hour. it went easy and smooth. no way you can get an engine out that quick (without hacking and cutting everything!) all the hoses, vacuum, intake, throttle cables, power steering, a/c, radiator, wiring, etc is cumbersome. if you had to set a speed record you'd want to pull a trans. pulling the transmission is by far the quickest POSSIBLE way. but it is annoying and can be a bear to do yourself. having a really good transmission jack or being good at rigging something yourself will make this much more palatable. if i had a really good trans jack that i knew worked well with subaru transmissions i'd be willing to try pulling the transmission. if you do pull the trans hocrest has recommended the tip of using an engine lift to help assist - thread some chain/straps through the engine bay, behind the engine to help assist holding the weight of the trans as you remove/install. having a trans jack you may not need that. pulling the engine is a very straightforward and simple way to do it yourself. that's why people prefer that. it avoids the reinstallation from underneath with cramped quarters and no visibility - you can't see what you're doing.....so this is a great way to do it yourself. also pulling the engine has a lot more value to it - you can do timing belts, spark plug (on the phase II engines that's a help), valve covers, oil pan, head gaskets, etc much easier with the engine out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOthis Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 edrach- i realize that... im just wondering what kind of subi you did it on....i was thinking that there may be extra steps i may not know of if it is a different model or year subi.....ive only ever done the clutch on my 96 ej22 legacy.....my apologies if i sounded offensive or arrogant.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 No one talks about the half shafts. I always thought you have to remove the axles if you drop the trans. How do you do it, and how can it be done fast? Am I missing something here? Happens... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru360 Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 No one talks about the half shafts. I always thought you have to remove the axles if you drop the trans. How do you do it, and how can it be done fast? Am I missing something here? Happens... You have to pull the front axles to drop the trans. Easiest way is to mark the strut bolts and pull them, some people undo the ball joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 axles are easy. one pin on the trans side, remove one strut bolt, loosen the other and out they come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Do I understand that you dont remove the shafts from the wheels, only from the trans ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Do I understand that you dont remove the shafts from the wheels, only from the trans ? yep, that's it. with one strut bolt removed and the other loose the hub will rotate out plenty to pull off the trans. actually...i've even removed a transmission by doing nothing but knocking the pins out. i don't recommend it though because you have to get the distance just right and i'm not sure it would work on all models. too far and there's too much pressure on the joint. not enough and there's not enough room to get it off. not sure if it works on all models, i think i did it on an impreza. drop the trans a bit enough to increase the distance the axle has to travel and the axle will slide off the trans. this doesn't apply to clutch swaps or manuals, but if it were an automatic you could probably even just yank the axle stub out of the trans, they come out fairly easily, only held in by a cir-clip. then they pop right back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meddler Posted May 10, 2008 Author Share Posted May 10, 2008 Can someone give me some more information on this rear separator plate - I can't seem to find anything about it in my service manuals. Maybe that means this car doesn't have one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 there's tons of information on this site. practice with the search function and you'll come up with it. there's pictures, info and part numbers all posted here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru360 Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 Can someone give me some more information on this rear separator plate - I can't seem to find anything about it in my service manuals. Maybe that means this car doesn't have one? It has one. If it's the original it will be a big black plastic plate behind the flywheel. The updated one is metal. If you need the updated metal one, just ask at any subie dealer, they will know what it is and probably have it in stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 edrach- i realize that... im just wondering what kind of subi you did it on....i was thinking that there may be extra steps i may not know of if it is a different model or year subi.....ive only ever done the clutch on my 96 ej22 legacy.....my apologies if i sounded offensive or arrogant....No offence taken....altho I was thinking about it:) . Anyway, no harm no foul. But it was my '86 GL wagon the first time and a '91 Legacy Wagon the second time. I'm sort of comparing apples and oranges there. But to be honest, I did not like being under the '86 trying to line up the transmission and getting it to slide onto the main shaft. If felt much easier (and safer) doing it with the engine on a hoist from above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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