aa8jzdial Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Towed son's 91 Legacy 2wd 5 speed manual home yesterday. Engaging clutch in any gear, including neutral would stall motor. Jacked front wheels up and found neutral acted like 4th or 5th gear- 1000 rpm=25 mph on speedo, wheels spinning free. 5 th gear position seemed the same. All others appeared dead lock, stalled motor. Any chance the fix is other then major? Thinking it is time to find good used tranny. What is a fair price? tnx rick w mi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aircraft engineer Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 I'm not too familiar with the Sub trans - but what you are describing is that the shifter linkage came loose in 5th gear and stayed there. (doesn't "shift" - the shift lever moves but the trans doesn't physically "shift") I seem to remember from pictures that this trans is a 2 rod - one pivots (selects the gear cluster fork to move) and the other slides in/out (engage the gear). The in/out rod isn't moving or inside the trans the rod shift fork has come off the rod - that's my guess anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa8jzdial Posted July 1, 2008 Author Share Posted July 1, 2008 AE tnx for the post. my initial thoughts exactly. I am not sure that solves my problem as the inside of xmsns scare the heck out of me. If all else fails, and it looks like it is failing-can't find a used xmsn, as a last resort I will rip into it and see what I can find. One question to others though. I have a line on an awd manual xmsn. Will it be possible to make this work. Just not use the drive shaft to the rear wheels?? rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 I'm pretty sure that wouldn't work. The front and rear work together, if one has a load and the other doesn't, it'll lead to torque bind. but I'm not expert so someone will correct me if I'm wrong:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reveeen Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Before you get carried away check the external shift linkage 1st before going any further. Does the clutch feel ok? (sometimes the pilot bearing blowing up will cause the stuff you describe), too, the input shaft bearing blowing up, will cause the same thing (any noises from the transmission?). It would be interesting to be told how this condition you describe came about. (these cars, especially a 2WD sport sedan, do incredible burn-outs, until something breaks!) The AWD transmission will work, but you gotta plug the hole, the hole where the front driveshaft yoke "plugs" into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 I'm pretty sure that wouldn't work. The front and rear work together, if one has a load and the other doesn't, it'll lead to torque bind. but I'm not expert so someone will correct me if I'm wrong:) on an auto trans, the rear shaft need to be there or the AT fluid spills out. i don't know about manuals. seems like it would work if it didn't leak fluid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumpy Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 I have one of those that did the same thing. Bought it as a parts car because the trans was making a noise in one gear and the owner was quoted to may $ to fix. A friend drove it home for me. She had 4 forward gears when we started out. 30 miles latter there was only 1, no neutral or reverse. Stuck in like third gear. I never could get it out of gear until I pulled the motor, then it shifted fine for some strange reason. Still have it, threating to tear it down some day out of courisity. Good luck with yours!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa8jzdial Posted July 1, 2008 Author Share Posted July 1, 2008 nipper You talk about checking bushings in linkage and radius rod. I assume this is external to the xmsn case? As too burn outs. I can say the kid is way past doing that sort of stuff as he knows how much of his time is involved in fixing things. If I do put in an awd xmsn, my first concern is that it will indeed work ok. Another thought though and this will not stop me from preceeding, but will fuel economy take any sort of dip with the more rotating mass etc. even though there will be no rear drive mechanisms? Will I be fool hardy to even take a peak into the guts of the old xmsn?? tnx r Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankosolder2 Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 Does it make funny noises in all gears but one? How does the gear lube look? I have seen two manual transmissions sieze in "direct drive" mode. (these cars were not subarus.) Barring an external linkage issue, I think you're best off looking for a J/Y replacement trans. Using a AWD trans in a FWD application will require locking up the viscous coupling, IMHO. You're best off finding a FWD trans. Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltik Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 If you can get a hold of an AWD transmission its quite easy to use this instead of the FWD model. The gear ratios will be slightly different. All youll need to do is weld up the center diff (lots of info on nasioc) then fit a plug or cap on the rear output shaft. Manuals do leak oil without the driveshaft in place. Sounds like a broken shifter fork to me but im really no expert on this, i only destroy auto transmissions. When you say it just locks up in any other gear selection - that tells me its got some internal issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa8jzdial Posted July 2, 2008 Author Share Posted July 2, 2008 My only experience listening to the xmsn has been with the front wheels up on a jack. Neutral and 5th gear (position on the shift lever) are the only two that will cause wheels to spin. Others cause very solid motor stall on clutch release. No unusual noise heard in any case. The gear lube was down half a qt when we first snooped around. Added to full. Lube appears clean with no tell tale flakes of metal. Hopefully today will be able to further investigate input linkage. Is it possible with external linkage manipulation to acutally cause a input shaft lockup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 is there any chance it's simply stuck in gear but the shifter isn't working. cable is broke, stretched, frayed, seized, etc? i wouldn't use an AWD transmission unless you can find one with a seized center differential. it's easy with older Subaru transmissiong, but on yours the way the EJ transmissions center diffs work aren't conducive to using an AWD trans as a FWD. that's why he's talking about welding and such. on the automatics it's really easy to convert the trans from FWD to AWD or AWD to FWD without even getting into the transmission. you just swap the rear housing of the trans which is easy and can actually be done on the car. i doubt manuals are this way but worth asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 Will I be fool hardy to even take a peak into the guts of the old xmsn?? tnx r It all depends. Lots and lots of years ago the trans on my front wheel drive Austin 1800 stuck in fourth. It took me one full week and the help of the shop manual to open the trans and find the problem. I had almost no experience doing mechanics and I repaired it successfully. Maybe I was lucky. If you're patient and have lots of time, maybe you can repair it. If it's not external of course. I dont remember the exact details, but the problem was a bulged washer (?) (2 or 3 inches across) at the end of one of the shafts. I had a new one machined and replaced it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 The transmission is borked. The fact that you can select other gears and move through neutral means that the external linkages are OK. The 5th gear synchro is either seized, or the shift fork for fith is broken/ bent. Selecting any other gear locks two different ratios to the same shafts, which jams the transmission. Put the shifter in neutral, wheels on the ground, redline the engine and do a clutch dump. If the 5th gear synchro is seized from lack of lubrication, this may pop it loose. And you have nothing to loose if it doesn't, as the tranny is done already. There isn't enough torque in 5th to break axles and whatnot, so the only thing you'll hurt is the transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa8jzdial Posted July 8, 2008 Author Share Posted July 8, 2008 As of today, engine is hanging on hoist. I found a 2wd xmsn 300 miles away. $300 not delivered. Found awd 20 miles away still in car. $100 I pull motor and xmsn. Car delivered to my garage on trailer. How would you guys go with this? I sure like to save 200 + bucks but don't want to do all the work and still have to do the long drive for a 2wd. Any wiring issues? It seems there is something about a fuse under the hood that when pulled drops awd into fwd only. Like it would do any good with fuse in place. Someone mentioned welding up the differential. I guess I will try the site he referenced. tnx rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankosolder2 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 As of today, engine is hanging on hoist.I found a 2wd xmsn 300 miles away. $300 not delivered. Found awd 20 miles away still in car. $100 I pull motor and xmsn. Car delivered to my garage on trailer. How would you guys go with this? I sure like to save 200 + bucks but don't want to do all the work and still have to do the long drive for a 2wd. Any wiring issues? It seems there is something about a fuse under the hood that when pulled drops awd into fwd only. Like it would do any good with fuse in place. Someone mentioned welding up the differential. I guess I will try the site he referenced. tnx rick I could be talking smack here, but I seem to recall someone saying that the position of the shift linkage was different on FWD vs AWD 5MT cars. (I've never even seen a FWD subaru, so that's just hearsay.) If you do go the AWD + welded diff route, I would be interested to hear if there is a difference. Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltik Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Personally id go with the FWD transmission as the final drive ratio is much nicer. Also it keeps everything tidy under the car. Even though you could fit a AWD transmission with a bit of work - its still not as professional and tidy as getting another FWD in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 this is a 2wd vehicle right? so by getting an AWD trans do you mean to convert it to FWD or to swap the car to AWD? swapping to AWD requires a bit of work and parts. driveshaft, rear diff and hanger, drilling carrier mount holes if they're not present, rear crossmember, rear hubs, emergency brake cables, axles....be a decent amount of work and parts. the FWD trans is the better fit for most people in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa8jzdial Posted July 8, 2008 Author Share Posted July 8, 2008 It appears the consensus is spring the extra money and go 2wd. I was not planning on going awd though. No rear diff or any of that. Just use the awd as 2wd because it is cheap and real close to home. This is not a real shiney, hey look a me kind of car. Just want to get the last son through school. And school being real expensive, saving 250 to 300 dollars is a big deal. tnx guys rick w mi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa8jzdial Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share Posted July 31, 2008 I failed to follow the suggestions offered from those much wiser than I. Being a cheap sort, I put in the awd xmsn over the past few weeks. Stubbed off the rear drive shaft and added the extra bracket for the carrier bearing. The car drives as though the clutch is slipping in the lower gears. Not so noticable in the higher gears. Just the opposite of an actually bad clutch. With the car in 1st gear and parked on a sloping driveway, clutch engaged, it just rolls backwards. I am wondering if welding of the center diff, however one would do that is feasable. Would the same thing be accomplished by seazing up the carrier bearing somehow? I sure don't want to bite the bullet and pull everything out again and redo all the work to put in the fwd xmsn if there is a less painful option. Remind me to listen better next time. rick A lot of work for naught so far. rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltik Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Hey mate. Seizing up the carrier bearing would be a bad move - that would do all sorts of funky things with the center diff. Your best option is to remove the tail section of the transmission and weld the diff properly. To be honest i havnt got a clue how to do the welding part but if your average bloke in new zealand can do it in his shed - it cant be that hard. Heres a guide on modifying the limited slip center diffs in the JDM transmissions. Im fairly sure yours will be very similar. http://clubsub.org.nz/forums/index.php?topic=22329.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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