August 14, 200817 yr I was putting my 2.2 back together today. While torqueing the headolts using a torque I broke # 3 bolt trying to get to 132 FT LBS! 1. Has this happened to anyone eles? 2. How the he!! does one get the piece out? And I thought this couldn't get ant worse!
August 14, 200817 yr 132 FT LBS! The info is on my other computer, but 132 ft/lbs, I don't think so! 1. Has this happened to anyone else? Ah, no, because there is a torque sequence that DOES NOT INCLUDE 132 ft/lbs 2. How the he!! does one get the piece out? Take the head off, center punch/drill/easy out, or try welding a piece to it, or heat with a torch and throw ice/cold water on it (making sure you throw out any other bolts you have applied crazy amounts of torque to, replacing them with new ones, seeing they are stretch bolts, and you have rendered them useless, then get the correct procedure before doing this again.
August 14, 200817 yr Looking at the head, top going left to right 3 - 1 - 6 bottom going left to right 5 - 2 - 4 All tightening must follow the usual sequence 1 to 6 1) All to 22 ft-lbs 2) All to 51 3) Loosen all 180° 4) Again 5)1 and 2 (non turbo) to 25 ft-lbs 6) 3,4,5 and 6 (non turbo) to 132 in-lbs (divide by 12 for ft-lbs) 7) all an additionnal 90° 8) Again You gave the bolts 12 times the recommended torque. I'm very surprised the bolts broke. I would have thought an aluminum head would have stripped before breaking a steel bolt of that diameter. Good luck!
August 14, 200817 yr 7) all an additionnal 90° 8) Again - (meaning another 90 degrees - Not to exceed 180 degrees total) You gave the bolts 12 times the recommended torque. I'm very surprised the bolts broke. I would have thought an aluminum head would have stripped before breaking a steel bolt of that diameter. Good luck! (I added a bit to #8) The head wouldn't get stripped because the threads are in the block, but it sure could have damaged and/or warped the head(s). They need to be checked by a machine shop. Also, the block deck needs to be checked for straightness too. Use a good metal straight edge from several different angles, up/down, left/right, and crossways across the deck.Your thinnest feeler gauge shouldn't fit anywhere under the straight edge (other than the cylinders).
August 14, 200817 yr Author OMG!! This is what happens when you roll out of bed (3rd shift) and start working on your car! I wish I had read it again! Thanks for pointing that out. Man do I feel STUPID!!!. The last 2 inches of the bolt broke so it's off to the machine shop with the block.
August 14, 200817 yr as a general rule, it's good to get new bolts everytime you do a rebuild b/c they are stretch bolts. BW
August 14, 200817 yr Author as a general rule' date=' it's good to get new bolts everytime you do a rebuild b/c they are stretch bolts. BW[/quote'] I've heard and read that down thru the years but I've never done it and after a couple of dozen motors never had a problem. This is the 1st soob I've reinstalled heads on and other than 12X's more torque than should be applied I doubt if I would have had a problem. Now that I've over torqued these I will get a new set. Thanks all.
August 14, 200817 yr (I added a bit to #8) The head wouldn't get stripped because the threads are in the block, ). Sorry for the slip. I meant "block" of course.
August 14, 200817 yr Replace all the bolts your over-torqued. They are stretched now and useless. They could fail if you put them in tension again even at stock torque value. GD
August 14, 200817 yr I've heard and read that down thru the years but I've never done it and after a couple of dozen motors never had a problem. This is the 1st soob I've reinstalled heads on and other than 12X's more torque than should be applied I doubt if I would have had a problem. Now that I've over torqued these I will get a new set. Thanks all. I wouldn't trust your new, now old head gaskets either. They have likely seen all the crush they can stand. Sorry.
August 15, 200817 yr Author I wouldn't trust your new, now old head gaskets either. They have likely seen all the crush they can stand. Sorry. Both already ordered. Thanks
August 17, 200817 yr Author Update: The piece of bolt came right out with a left twist drill. Here's a bit of info you guys can debate while I'm out catching striped bass and getting buzzed in my kayak today. The machinest told me that the old gasket would be just fine to use, told me not to waste my money. Too late but, maybe I'll use it when I put the other engine back together. Also he doesn't think that the head or block could get warped from one bolt being overtorqued. This guy has been at this for 30 years, his shop is right in the middle of about 6 service centers that all use him. I asked them all about his work and got postive responses. I found him by calling the Soob dealer that does my emissions inspections and asking them what machine shop they use. What ya think? I'll check back tonight.
August 17, 200817 yr I doubt that one bolt, or even a couple, are likely to cause any warpage in this situation. Almost more likely get warped setting it on your bench wrong. Warpage is usually caused during high-stress conditions: hot parts, lots of compression pressure, uneven torque/clearances containing the pressures. Regarding the HGs, lots of us old-timers started during the days when a HG was a single layer of metal with a little extra fire ring around the cylinder. These gaskets were pretty sensitive to crush during install. The newer multi-layer, multi-material is probably a lot more forgiving. But condsidering the hassles involved if it is damaged, new ones sound like cheap insurance.
August 18, 200817 yr Author I doubt that one bolt, or even a couple, are likely to cause any warpage in this situation. Almost more likely get warped setting it on your bench wrong. Warpage is usually caused during high-stress conditions: hot parts, lots of compression pressure, uneven torque/clearances containing the pressures. Regarding the HGs, lots of us old-timers started during the days when a HG was a single layer of metal with a little extra fire ring around the cylinder. These gaskets were pretty sensitive to crush during install. The newer multi-layer, multi-material is probably a lot more forgiving. But condsidering the hassles involved if it is damaged, new ones sound like cheap insurance. Well the fishing trip was GREAT:banana: !!! Didn't catch a lot of fish but the eye candy was every where on the beach on the opposite shore. Best day I've had in 5 weeks. I don't disagree with anything you said NorthWet. If things where going better with this project as a whole I might be inclined to go with the same HG, it looks fine. No one could tell by looking that it, that it had ever touched an engine block. But when things are going as bad as they have for the last 5 weeks I don't tempt fate! I have a second EJ22 that was cooked good but is worth fixing I'll use it on that after the mojo changes.
August 24, 200817 yr Author Here's a update: The engine is together all went well the heads and decking were good not warpage the new bolt tighten right up in the hole that had the broken bolt so no bad thread damage (I hope) everything fit except the parts store gave me the wrong clutch. They had the right one because they had ordered it for me. So the engine is in the compartment and almosted landed, even with the dog bone disconnected and the cross over bolts backed off a few turns the lump won't go back far enough to drop the motor mount studs into the holes in the "frame". I had to stop yesterday as it was 6:00PM I had worked all night and had been at it most of the day getting the motor to the point it was ready to install and trying to line it up. So that's where its at. I'm on my way out now to finsh landing it and start connecting everything.
August 25, 200817 yr Author Working on a uneven surface sure makes getting the motor and trans back together more of a challenge. The crane was hard to move forward (up the incline) and also tended to swing to the left when it did move. So after many hours of the lump is in and I'll finish reconnecting everything today. I expect to start it before I go to bed at 1:00PM! :banana:
August 26, 200817 yr Author Well 1:00pm came and I still needed an oil filter, oil, coolant and a battery so tomrrow is the day if I'm not too tired after working all night. I wanted to do pics of this project but I haven't had much luck posting pics on USMB. Looks good, as in stock, so it gets by any visuals they may do at emissions, I hope.
August 26, 200817 yr Author The engine fired up like it had been running yesterday!!!!!!!!! :banana: It threw a knock sensor code after it warmed up. Darn! I almost changed it when I had the intake off. Its one of 3 sensors I left on /or used from the ej22 I bought. The others are from the ej22 I cooked and are all good. I did route the wiring harness so the knock sensor is accessible so changing it will be easy. Anyone have a shifter boot for a 97 MT 5spd? The one that was on my trans was brittle and broke apart when I touched it. Also noticed a torn front outer CV boot. I'll be calling MWE tomorrow. I've got to swap out the drivers seat with the Lego do the brakes all around get a return spring for the shifter clean up the inside and she'll be ready for another 100+K miles!
August 27, 200817 yr Author So here's what I did to my Outback: Valve job and head gasket 1 head adjusted valve lash both sides valve cover gaskets OME oil seperater plate OME oil pump OME water pump OME T-belt OME cam,crank seals OME plugs / wires OME pcv OME air filter OME gas filter OME thermostat OME oil filter AM clutch kit AM upper / lower rad hoses AM brakes front / rear AM front axle MWE welded flange on upstream cat welded loose exhaust sys. heat shields replaced heat shield covering driveshaft OME = Orignal Manufacturer Equipment AM = After Market MWE = Marshall Wolf Enterprises
August 28, 200817 yr This has always baffled me.. Why would they give instructions in in-lbs. When 99% if the manual is in ft-lbs? 6) 3,4,5 and 6 (non turbo) to 132 in-lbs (divide by 12 for ft-lbs)
August 28, 200817 yr This has always baffled me.. Why would they give instructions in in-lbs. When 99% if the manual is in ft-lbs? 6) 3,4,5 and 6 (non turbo) to 132 in-lbs (divide by 12 for ft-lbs) Search me!
August 28, 200817 yr Author scrwebaru2, where did you get an exhaust flange? I have looked everywhere I cut if off a cat that I wasn't using. I then cut in half from 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock ground the ID so it would fit better. Then I welded behind the original flange. Seems to work, I checked for leaks and found none. Time will tell how it holds up. I could cut another one off for you if you'd like. PM me.
August 28, 200817 yr This has always baffled me.. Why would they give instructions in in-lbs. When 99% if the manual is in ft-lbs? 6) 3,4,5 and 6 (non turbo) to 132 in-lbs (divide by 12 for ft-lbs) To sell head bolts, silly! It worked this time didn't it?
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