1-3-2-4 Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 This should be simple here I hope... So I finally replaced a failed water pump.. the belt I took off looked good no missing teeth.. anyways for feeling good I go ahead and change it along with all the idlers and Tensioner. anyways the issue I have here now is with the new belt on and the sprocket that's next to the water pump with the sprocket in place I can't get the belt on the sprocket.. also with the force I used I caused the driver side cam to turn and now it's no longer aligned. Any help would be great since I need the car by Monday at least. I included a picture showing how the belt is now but not how the belt looks trying to get on the idler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 OK. First off: Year, Model, Mileage, Engine And second of all, compress the tensioner. Third, remove the tensioner pulley and the tensioner. Fourth, route the belt around the lower pulleys. Now, it appears that your timing belt has lines on it. Line up the lines with proper marks on the cams (the end pulleys) and the crankshaft (the center pulley) while their at tdc (top dead center.) They should line up just fine. All the slack in the belt should be between the driver's side cam and the crankshaft. Hold everything in place and reattach the tesioner pulley. Then just reattach the tesioner, pull the pin, and TAH DAH!!! Your timing should be set. Twitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 Sorry I'm so used to other sites showing your car model.. It's a 1995 Legacy L wagon with a 2.2L since this thread what I did was turned the driver side cam once around and it aligned with the crank. so I went ahead and figured out I needed to take the sprocket idler off and I finally got the belt on and so I spun the crank around and it's still aligned.. I wont start it up until tomorrow since I will have more light to see and it will be warmer then some 30F out here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger1 Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 The tensioner is a key item, MHO! It compresses very slowly in my 5" vise. It doesn't compress all at once, I cranked down let it set a few minutes and then cranked some more. I would entertain a better way if someone has one? Pin it with a 3 P 0r 4P nail till you get the belt all on properly. I learned the hard way that part is over $65 4 years ago. I know Subrau timing belt has marrks on to make alignment or timing correct, I don't know if after market belts have the marks. Replace that o-ring on oil pump as its very cheap part to have to go thru what you are doing again for $1.50 part while you are in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 Any harm with starting up the car without the crank pulley on or should I put it on and tighten it down and start the car to make sure everything is ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I don't know, but I never fired it up without it being completely assembled. I don't think there are any major systems attached to the accessory belts... Twitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 nope just the AC and the PS and Alternator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1997reduxe Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I just did this same job last weekend. The easiest way for me to get belt on was from advice here on usmb about leaving off the bottom left pulley till you get the whole belt on other parts, then after putting on bottom left one pulling tensioner pin. I had put red paint marks on camshaft pulleys and crank sprocket--right on a tooth each where they were facing directly upward. then the lines on belt went right upward too. I don't know--it worked. Runs great. Make sure you have the water in and oil, tighten all water pump bolts, it's really easy to miss one. It doesn't matter about running engine with no AC/Alt belts on, but I at beginning of job left key on in ignition overnight, and then running it with no alt (had to jump from brother's truck) really killed battery. Took an entire day just to recharge. Oh, and how are you tightening the crank pulley? I tried to rig up something the first time, and had to take half of it apart again to find that I had not really gotten the pulley actually onto the key, but was in fact pushing the key into the back of the pulley. (Good that at that point I didn't yet have the chain wrench.) 2nd time was better, on the key, bought chain wrench, all good. Can't believe how well it runs, and realized how much I was actually curtailing my driving cause I knew the belt could go anytime, etc. '97 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 That lower idler is the key for me on a SOHC - I may have been the one who recommended it. On the 2.5's I don't have a set approach - they arent' nearly as pleasant. My other trick is to use those plier type clamps to keep the TB on the cam pulleys and the crank. I do them outta the car thought. I may be able to post a pic later today. I'm finishing one up this afternoon/evening. Also I have another harmonic balancer tool being made. I'll have to check but I may be able to sell sturdy tools for the harmonic balancers for like 50 bucks. I think the last one cost me like 45 and don't know the price of steel lately. The 2.2's and early 2.5's take one size and later 2.5's take another size. The 2.5 tool is excellent, I have the second version of the 2.2 tool being made now. Not rocket science - just beyond my abilities and equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 crap so I put the pulley on and set my TQ wrench to 120Ft. Lb and went to crank.. no start.. took the pulley off and noticed the crank is off... ugh.. I have a question the white marks on my cams when they are lined up with the marks on the covers are the valves closed? I have to take the belt off again but should not be so bad this time around.. providing the cam wont spring around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I'm telling ya. Go buy 3 of those plier type clamps. 2 can be on the small side (for the cams) and a larger one for the splined crank pulley - mine are all the same size. I cut a piece of old TB to put on the bottom even thought the clamp is plastic. If it's a 95 2.2 it's non interference so no need to worry about re-aligning things up. But yes - traditionally the drivers side is under load and prone to spin when doing TB jobs. That's why I do the passenger side last - and you have the extra play on that side from not having that lowest idler installed yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 I'm telling ya. Go buy 3 of those plier type clamps. 2 can be on the small side (for the cams) and a larger one for the splined crank pulley - mine are all the same size. I cut a piece of old TB to put on the bottom even thought the clamp is plastic. If it's a 95 2.2 it's non interference so no need to worry about re-aligning things up. But yes - traditionally the drivers side is under load and prone to spin when doing TB jobs. That's why I do the passenger side last - and you have the extra play on that side from not having that lowest idler installed yet. thanks for the help everyone any tips help I learned from last night lol I got about 5 cuts from the driver side cam turning by hand. so I just spun the cams around so the white marks line up and the passenger side is about one tooth off.. now if I can get the crank to line up and the belt back on I should be in good shape right? the funny thing about all of this is I'm missing the belt cover that the M/T models have over the crank.. Not sure where that went but it was never on when I removed the cover yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 I'm telling ya. Go buy 3 of those plier type clamps. 2 can be on the small side (for the cams) and a larger one for the splined crank pulley - mine are all the same size. I cut a piece of old TB to put on the bottom even thought the clamp is plastic. If it's a 95 2.2 it's non interference so no need to worry about re-aligning things up. But yes - traditionally the drivers side is under load and prone to spin when doing TB jobs. That's why I do the passenger side last - and you have the extra play on that side from not having that lowest idler installed yet. What type of clamp is that? that's to hold the cam right? I still have the old TB.. and yes the 95 2.2 is non interference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 PM me an email. The GF is getting something to eat. I can send you a pic of the clamps that I use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 where is the alignment mark for the crank? it just has a white mark painted just like the cams. I just took these Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Look for endwrench links her eon how to do a TB change. You'll have an email in a few minutes. You go be the hash mark at the BACK of the crank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 where is the alignment mark for the crank? it just has a white mark painted just like the cams. In this picture, the mark for the crank can actually be seen. It is on the little tab at hte back of the pulley, against the block. IN this photo it isn't quite all the way up, but almost. Do you see it? it is the small "line" stamped into that tab. It is also excatly opposite the keyway on the crank that locates the pulleys. Use that mark, and the lines on the cam pulleys, all straight up. NOT THE ARROWS FOR THE CRANK OR CAM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 NOT THE ARROWS FOR THE CRANK OR CAM. Always hash marks. Not arrows or dots. The pics I sent you aren't totally alignes (no TB inspalled) but you can see what to lign up. If I were better at posting pics I would have just posted them in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 In this picture, the mark for the crank can actually be seen. It is on the little tab at hte back of the pulley, against the block. IN this photo it isn't quite all the way up, but almost. Do you see it? it is the small "line" stamped into that tab. It is also excatly opposite the keyway on the crank that locates the pulleys. Use that mark, and the lines on the cam pulleys, all straight up. NOT THE ARROWS FOR THE CRANK OR CAM. both cams need to be lined up in the same position as the crank mark? lined with the mark on the TB cover? My issue now would be when I bring the belt over the idler the driver side cam will jump from it's alignment mark clockwise I turned the engine by hand 720 deg and the passenger and main crank are still lined up right just the driver side is not right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 Always hash marks. Not arrows or dots. The pics I sent you aren't totally alignes (no TB inspalled) but you can see what to lign up. If I were better at posting pics I would have just posted them in this thread. yeah I got the email great help but as I emailed back those clamps you have what is keeping it from (drivers side) from moving forward or backwards? because what happen to me as I said before when I bring the belt over the idler the driver side will tend to spring clockwise and off goes the alignment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 it's way off on the drivers side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Try removing the lower left(passenger) side idler, the smooth one. Now you have to hold the tensioner pulley taught while you install the drivers side belt. I ussually set it one tooth left of the mark, so that when you tension the belt by installing the lower pulley, , it will pull it back around clockwise. Don't forget, the tensioner is going to take up some slack, so push on that thing and get it to where it is taking up all the slack before you make you're final checks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 It won't keep the belt from moving but it will keep the belt pegged to the mark on the cams & crank. So that when it moves back in place it'll be o.k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 Try removing the lower left(passenger) side idler, the smooth one. Now you have to hold the tensioner pulley taught while you install the drivers side belt. I ussually set it one tooth left of the mark, so that when you tension the belt by installing the lower pulley, , it will pull it back around clockwise. Don't forget, the tensioner is going to take up some slack, so push on that thing and get it to where it is taking up all the slack before you make you're final checks. I'm going to try it this way.. I have a spring loaded clamp around here.. so I'm holding the tensioner down on the belt while I put the belt over the driver side crank, correct? I got the driver side lined up right now which took less force then my other times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 Good news everyone the car runs.. somewhat.. first let me say the spring clamps are a BIG help.. I'm about 1-2 teeth off on the driver's side cam so when it runs it's very rough... I've heard some say I should work from the driver's side cam to the passenger side.. I left a lot of slack in the area where the tensioner pulley is.. however I want to make sure it wont pull the crank when I put the TB on the passenger side crank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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