johnceggleston Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 after i swapped the 96 2.2L into my 97 gt, i decided to swap the instrument cluster as well, after all the engine and the cluster came from the same car. i was going to swap the whole cluster, but the 2 wire connector on the back in the area of the speedo didn't match so i swapped the speedo only. while driving home that day, i noticed that i was moving along with all the other traffic, but my speedo said i was going 80 mph in a 55 zone. no way. look at these pictures and tell me which one is from the 96 legacy and which from the 97 GT. the top speedo that goes to 120 mph is from the 97 2.5L gt, the bottom one that goes to 140 mph is from the 96 legacy 2.2L. crazy, right? apparently neither car will go that fast (at least i'll never go that fast in them unless i've driven off a very tall cliff.) so it's a moot point. i took it out on the hiway and clocked it against a measured half mile. 77 on speedo ~ 66 mph, 84 on speedo ~ 72 mph. when the needle is straight up on each speedo, they are reading about a 10 mph difference. conclusion, the needles move the exact sameamount relative to the actual speed, but the faceplates with the numbers are different. (so the speedos are the same, but the faceplates are differnt.) this is an amazingly ingenious cost saving move on subaru's part, the faceplates have to be dirt cheap compared to the cost of the speedos. ok, so i put in the TCU from the 96 leg 2.2L in to see if that would correct the speedo, nope, no change. by the way, the odometer seems to be dead on, the 297 mile trip to grandma's house did not change, at least not more than 1%. by the way, i didn't drive enough with the 96 speedo on the 97 tcu to determine if the odo was off or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 wow, that is awesome. good to know as well. so the take home motto is that the determining factor is the speedo face. so what are you going to do? swap the faces out or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Doesn't the signal for the speedometer come from a sensor in the transmission? I think you are going to have to use the other meter to make things right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted April 20, 2009 Author Share Posted April 20, 2009 my plan now is to swap the face, but it's a pain getting the cluster out when the steering wheel is in the way. know any tips? this far into it, i may try my outback tcu to see what happens. i suspect it will change at least one, odo or speedo, maybe both, but who knows? i thought about swapping the front speed sensor but my guess is they are the same. my i'll double check the part numbers first. fyi: the tire circumfrence for the legacy and the gt is very very close so that's not a big issue. the difference is about 0.52%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Oddly I found it fairly easy to swap outr dashboards. I found this same issue when I tried swapping spedo heads. My next step was going to be swap out logic boards in the spedo heads, but I got tired of taking things apart nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Oddly I found it fairly easy to swap outr dashboards. I found this same issue when I tried swapping spedo heads. My next step was going to be swap out logic boards in the spedo heads, but I got tired of taking things apart nipper Since it's cable driven, I would assume you'd have to swap the actual speedo gear in the transmission in order to fix such a big speed difference (although, using different tires/wheels may help as well). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Since it's cable driven, I would assume you'd have to swap the actual speedo gear in the transmission in order to fix such a big speed difference (although, using different tires/wheels may help as well). 1997 is OBDII, its electronic no cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90legacywagon Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 so if i put a 95 2.2 in a 90, and plan on using the old intake manifold and sensors from the 90 model engine, my speedo should still read the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 If you keep your transmission yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90legacywagon Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 thanks-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted April 22, 2009 Author Share Posted April 22, 2009 (edited) so i forgot the big question: why are the faceplates different on the these speedos? the wheels are the same, the tcu makes no difference... only answer i can come up with is the drive gear in the front diff for the speed sensor. the 96 leg 2.2L has a 4.11 final drive and the GT has a 4.44 final drive, the drive gears must be different. (why wouldn't the gt be the same as the legacy?) i found 3 part numbers for speedo drive gears, one is listed for all legacy, brightons thru gt & lsi, (click on usage info) http://opposedforces.com/parts/info/32715AA040/ one just for outbacks, http://opposedforces.com/parts/info/32715AA060/ and another just for GTs. http://opposedforces.com/parts/info/32715AA050/ i never would have thought the drive gears were different. are they different? i have to try that outback TCU..... Edited April 22, 2009 by johnceggleston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 so i forgot the big question: why are the faceplates different on the these speedos? the wheels are the same, the tcu makes no difference... TCU mearly reads the speedo signal. It doesn't generate it or take any part in sending it on to the Dash. Signal goes straight from sensor to dash. With a parallel wire spliced on to carry signal to ECU, and also TCU on 4EAT equiped cars. They both just read the Data. only answer i can come up with is the drive gear in the front diff for the speed sensor. the 96 leg 2.2L has a 4.11 final drive and the GT has a 4.44 final drive, the drive gears must be different. (why wouldn't the gt be the same as the legacy?) i found 3 part numbers for speedo drive gears, one is listed for all legacy, brightons thru gt & lsi, (click on usage info) http://opposedforces.com/parts/info/32715AA040/ one just for outbacks, http://opposedforces.com/parts/info/32715AA060/ and another just for GTs. http://opposedforces.com/parts/info/32715AA050/ i never would have thought the drive gears were different. are they different? i have to try that outback TCU..... Yes, gear ratios are the reason for the different sensors and displays. drive gears on the sensor are specific to the final drive of the trans. They are even color coded if you take apart the trans to look at the drive gear on the diff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted April 25, 2009 Author Share Posted April 25, 2009 so i swapped the face plate today, the hard part was the speedo needle. it has to come off to remove the the plate. and putting it back on is a challenge. IN HIND SIGHT I SHOULD HAVE: removed the cluster, taken it in the house and placed it on a flat surface. then wait for the speedo needle to come to a rest. (when upright it reads "0", but when flat on it's back the needle will move.) note the location of the needle, remove the needle and faceplate (i used a flat screwdriver to pry under the needle base while bracing it on the hold down screw for the faceplate. CAREFUL THE NEEDLE IS VERY FRAGILE, ask me how i know), and then reinstall the faceplate (easy) and the needle making sure to install the needle in the same position it was when removed. i don't know this will work, but i know the way i did it doesn't. DON'T DO IT LIKE THIS: i did it all while sitting in the car. i popped off the needle (then the speedo spindle moved. i put it back together using my best guess, but it was wrong. the needle sat on "0" when i installed it, but as soon as i turned on the ignition, it jump up to 20 mph. when i test drove the car it said i was dooing 50 on my residential street. DUH, go figure. of course i didn't know this was going to happen until i put it all back together and started the car. so tomorrow i'll try to correct this. my plan is very long and bothersome. remove the cluster, remove the clear cover, remove the needle. install the cluster without the clear cover or the needle, turn on the car, install the needle pointing to "0" while sitting in the driveway. remove the cluster, install the cover, install the cluster, and test drive the car. i may test drive before i reinstall the clear plastic cover. if any one out there has any experience with this, please let me know, i could use the help!! thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted May 16, 2009 Author Share Posted May 16, 2009 (edited) so i finally got around to fixing my speedo needle problem. i removed the cluster, and then removed the clear lexan cover and then reinstalled the cluster no cover. i removed the speedo needle and started the car, and then re-installed the needle so it pointed to '0' with the car on and not moving. then i went for a test drive. well, it was still off, about 7 mph too fast @ 65 mph, but not as bad as before. so i stopped at an exit to try to adjust the needle yet again. but here's the problem. how to install the needle so it reads 7 mph slower with the engine running and sitting still. the pin/peg is in the way and i can't install it past the peg and 'lift' it over, i have already broken one needle. what the hell, it's not right now, so i go for broke. with the needle installed and the ignition off, i use my finger to turn it all the way around past the 120 mph mark. i only had to push it past the top of the speedo and gravity took over. it came to rest past the 6 oclock position but not as far as the 7 oclock position. so i pulled the needle off and reinstalled it at 6 oclock. manually pushed it back around to '0' and went for a test drive. i ended up with the spedo ~1.5 mph faster than actual speed. not bad, i'll always be slower than it says i am. i think this needle adjustment method would work for legacys with outback tires, but since those are a percentage off, you could adjust it to be fairly accurate at hiway speeds, but it may not be accurate at neighborhood speeds. since i started this i have learned that the speedo drive gears for the legacy are different than those for the outback; and the GT is different yet again. apparently, generally speaking, the speedo drive gears are designed to match the final drive and tire size but since the GT has the outback final drive and the legacy size tires they added a 'special size' drive gear for 96 - 97 (98?) GTs. any way i got my speedo to read correctly and i'm happy, well satisfied with my car anyway. john 97 GT wagon 2.2L a/t 125k, i hope the car last long enough to put another 200k on it, but at 12k a year, that's a long time. Edited May 16, 2009 by johnceggleston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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