Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Crank but will not start


  • Please log in to reply
50 replies to this topic

#26 iransom

iransom

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 19 posts
  • Denver

Posted 28 January 2011 - 12:49 AM

I located the green and black connecters and connected the green connecters and got a code 13 and according to the Haynes manual code 13 is the cam angle sensor. I hope its not the timing belt. Are there any symptoms or sounds that would let me know that its the timing belt?

#27 iransom

iransom

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 19 posts
  • Denver

Posted 28 January 2011 - 05:55 AM

Also when I had both the green and black connectors connected at the same time I started to hear a clicking noise until I disconnected one of them. Is there a way to clear the codes when the car wont start?

#28 wardssix

wardssix

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 37 posts
  • Lehigh Valley, PA

Posted 28 January 2011 - 08:41 AM

Pull the covers to see the timing belt rotation / condition etc. Code 13 is Crank sensor on SPI. What did you replace exactly?

cheers

Edited by wardssix, 28 January 2011 - 08:52 AM.


#29 Cougar

Cougar

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 6,340 posts
  • Anchorage

Posted 28 January 2011 - 10:26 AM

I found some factory service information for a 92 Legacy and it shows code 13 is for the cam sensor and code 11 is for the crank sensor so your manual information is correct. Since you replaced the correct sensor and it didn't make any change I think you should definately now check for a broken timing belt.

The green plugs are tied together only when a check on the systems needs to be made and is called the Diagnostic Mode. This turns things on an causes the clicking you heard and is normal. Tieing the black connectors together will allow the error codes in memory to be seen. To clear the memory both sets of connectors are tied together and the engine is then started. Clearing the memory will get rid of past codes but if there are active codes they won't go away.

Edited by Cougar, 28 January 2011 - 11:46 AM.


#30 iransom

iransom

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 19 posts
  • Denver

Posted 28 January 2011 - 03:10 PM

First, thing in the morning, I will remove one or both of the end covers and look for a broken timing belt. Is it common for a broken belt to cause the cam position sensor to go off?

#31 naru

naru

    1000+ Super USER!

  • Members
  • 1,818 posts
  • under the bridge

Posted 28 January 2011 - 03:12 PM

Broken belt=cams not turning=no cam sensor signal=code 13

I wouldn`t expect a broken belt to damage the sensor,but,possible.

Edited by naru, 28 January 2011 - 09:25 PM.


#32 iransom

iransom

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 19 posts
  • Denver

Posted 29 January 2011 - 03:55 PM

I was able to remove the left or driverside timing belt cover and get a good look at the timing belt. It seemed tight and in place. i mark a location on the belt with some chalk and when I attempted to crank the engine I notice the time belt had not move. Is that normal?

#33 naru

naru

    1000+ Super USER!

  • Members
  • 1,818 posts
  • under the bridge

Posted 29 January 2011 - 04:53 PM

Not if the engine turned.

#34 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 8,932 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 29 January 2011 - 09:18 PM

Could mean some teeth are stripped off the belt. Or that you cranked it just long enough for your mark to come back to the same place it started from.
The better way if you don't have a helper to turn the key while you watch, is to turn the crank by hand with a breaker bar and socket.

Listen to the engine in this video. Yours will sound similar if your cams don't turn or are out of time. (broken/skipped belt)


#35 librewer

librewer

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Bellmore NY

Posted 29 September 2013 - 09:40 PM

I have a 1992 legacy I use almost exclusively to drive to and from the train ~2miles each way. On Friday it died on my way to the train. I towed it home, It turns over but does not fire up, i tried starter fluid and it wouldn't fire up. Today I discovered that my check engine light doesn't work so I have not been able to pull the codes. I am getting sparks at each plug and checked the coil the resistance is the same as a new one which I decided not buy. It sounds like I'm getting some compression on each cylinder so I don't think it is the timing chain. The gas pump works, I'm not sure what I should do next. I am going to pull the dash and see if a can fix the check engine light but saw this and thought the problem sounded similar

#36 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 8,932 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 29 September 2013 - 11:23 PM

Sounds like the coil is good since you do have spark, and you verified coil resistance.
The other two things you need are fuel and compression.
You may be getting fuel, but is it the correct amount of fuel?
The fact that you don't have any fire from spraying starting fluid may mean its already getting enough fuel, and that compression is the problem.

It's fairly easy to verify timing marks, I'd do that before dropping $$$ on a fuel pump.

#37 heartless

heartless

    Do YOU Subaru?

  • Members
  • 2,825 posts
  • North Central Wisconsin

Posted 30 September 2013 - 06:26 AM

first things first - check the timing belt - dont guess on this - actually physically check it.

If the belt is on & tight, rotate the engine by hand (22mm socket/breaker bar on the crank bolt) and check teeth on the belt to make sure none are missing/damaged.

You can do all of this by removing the outer timing covers - nothing else needs to be removed yet.

 

There isnt a whole lot that will cause a no start on the early EJ22s - you have gas, you have spark - my money is on a broken/damaged timing belt.



#38 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,382 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 30 September 2013 - 07:01 AM

my money is on a broken/damaged timing belt.

me too!!!!!

 

when was the timing belt last done?



#39 librewer

librewer

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Bellmore NY

Posted 30 September 2013 - 08:12 PM

I have no idea when the timing belt was last done,I bought it six years ago with 1740000 miles on it and in the service notes I got it doesn't mention the timing belt. Is there a way to check the belt without pulling off the belts radiator covers and the timing covers etc? Basically it there an easy way to see it?

#40 heartless

heartless

    Do YOU Subaru?

  • Members
  • 2,825 posts
  • North Central Wisconsin

Posted 01 October 2013 - 06:14 AM

I have no idea when the timing belt was last done,I bought it six years ago with 1740000 miles on it and in the service notes I got it doesn't mention the timing belt. Is there a way to check the belt without pulling off the belts radiator covers and the timing covers etc? Basically it there an easy way to see it?

 

 

first things first - check the timing belt - dont guess on this - actually physically check it.

If the belt is on & tight, rotate the engine by hand (22mm socket/breaker bar on the crank bolt) and check teeth on the belt to make sure none are missing/damaged.

You can do all of this by removing the outer timing covers - nothing else needs to be removed yet.

 

There isnt a whole lot that will cause a no start on the early EJ22s - you have gas, you have spark - my money is on a broken/damaged timing belt.

 

Already answered above - remove the OUTER timing covers - nothing else needs to be touched at this point.

 

the timing cover is 3 seperate sections - the 2 outer pieces can be removed without touching anything else, the center section is the one that will require removing accessory belts, and crank pulley in order to remove it.

 

there are three 10mm bolts that hold each outer cover on - one on the top and two on the lower side of each section.



#41 ivans imports

ivans imports

    1000+ Super USER!

  • Members
  • 2,950 posts
  • lumby bc canada

Posted 01 October 2013 - 10:03 AM

timing belt striped the teeth on the crank sprocket



#42 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 8,932 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 01 October 2013 - 10:28 AM

The end sections of the timing cover can be removed without removing anything else. 3 bolts on each side. Might need to remove the coolant reservoir (2 bolts on top then pull up) to get room for the drivers side cover.

#43 librewer

librewer

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Bellmore NY

Posted 04 October 2013 - 05:23 AM

I want to give an update, when I pulled the covers, I didn't see anything wrong with the sprockets or belt but the timing marks were off. when looking at it from the front the one on my right had the mark dead center top and the mark on the one to my left was probably 45 degrees off from that. So I ordered the new belt and took off the rest of the belts etc and the center cover. The belt doesn't look worn or broken and I don't see any missing teeth. But since I ordered the belt, took everything off and the timing is off I'm going to replace the belt and water pump and make sure the timing is set right.

#44 heartless

heartless

    Do YOU Subaru?

  • Members
  • 2,825 posts
  • North Central Wisconsin

Posted 04 October 2013 - 06:18 AM

you should get idler pulleys and oil seals as well - do the job right so you dont have to go back in again for another 100,000 miles.

 

Also, since the belt was not broken, but it was out of time, I would also get a new tensioner for it. the tensioner is probably weak and allowed the belt to skip.

 

There are several good writeups around here for doing your timing - read through them so you have a good understanding of what to do.



#45 MilesFox

MilesFox

    Catch this Fox!

  • Members
  • 10,562 posts
  • Madison/Milwaukee, WI

Posted 04 October 2013 - 11:18 AM

Inspect all the pulleys ans the bearings can fail, the belt can skip. Inspect the tensioner as if it is weak, it can cause the belt to skip.



#46 librewer

librewer

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Bellmore NY

Posted 09 October 2013 - 07:37 PM

The bearings in the idler pulley were toast, I switched out the water pump, pulleys and tensions for new and it still wouldn't fire up

#47 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,382 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 09 October 2013 - 09:05 PM

what timing marks did you use?

 

NOT the ARROWS,

NEVER the ARROWS.

 

> TIMING BELT ARTICLES <____________________________  > Timing Belt Pictures <


Edited by johnceggleston, 09 October 2013 - 09:06 PM.


#48 librewer

librewer

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Bellmore NY

Posted 11 October 2013 - 07:33 PM

I think that's it! Thanks. I used the arrow on the middle sprocket, I will fix it tomorrow and let you know if that works

#49 Bushwick

Bushwick

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 473 posts
  • Ohio Akronish

Posted 12 October 2013 - 12:17 PM

I removed a hose from the fuel filter and tried cranking the car and plenty of fuel came out. So, this should let me know that the fuel pump and fuel pump relay is working properly. Please confirm. Also, where is the crank position sensor?

Next time just squirt some starting fluid in. If it fires, then you aren't getting fuel. If it doesn't fire, you aren't getting spark. Much safer than letting fuel squirt out. All it takes is a spark from something and poof no more :(



#50 librewer

librewer

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Bellmore NY

Posted 13 October 2013 - 07:15 PM

Thank you! That was it, it now runs!




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users