rkahoi Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 So.....I have just had the timing belt/water pump timing belt tensioner replaced, car has been running fine for 2 days then yesterday while driving it seemed to be having a misfire and actually shut off twice...the lights were dimming/ flickering as I stepped on the gas...the rev counter was also going from 2.5 to about 0.5 and kind of bouncing up and down to the point of turning off. Today..the car wouldn't start it makes a clicking sound then engine does not even turn over. point to note..the battery seems to be fine, radio,lights are coming on. So...wat could be wrong? Its a 96, subaru legacy outback with 220k. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Welcome to USMB. Check all vacuum lines. Also be aware the timing belt may be off one tooth. I assume they drove it in to do timing belt (it didn't break on you). I also assume these folks know SUbaru's? Like the fact that the valves can hit each other if they spin cam sprockets with no TB on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Hm a few of those symptoms might suggest checking the battery connections and grounds to make sure they're clean and tight and see if the cables are in good shape. If yes maybe a battery load test. If that's good maybe try tapping the starter with a small hammer. the lights were dimming/ flickering as I stepped on the gas Today..the car wouldn't start it makes a clicking sound then engine does not even turn over. Beyond that sometimes if one of the diodes in the alternator shorts it will cause weird electrical things to happen when running even though the voltage reads normal. Do you have a manual trans, or an auto trans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The alterntor might be the cause. Especially if you started loosing the ability to get into the higher RPM's and that "ceiling" kept getting lower (less RPM's) as you drove. ALso if unrelated lights come on ABS and another one (I forget) but NOT a battery light(yea - I know - stupid) but that's what happens in a SUbaru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 hopefully, it's something simple like they forgot to tighten the negative battery terminal and it took a coupla days to vibrate loose. Or a slipping alternator belt. Or a connector came loose. It COULD be unrelated to the recent work, but if the car was running normally before, it should be the same now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeolaPA Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Is your alternator belt broken? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Hm if that belt is broken you would loose power steering assist as well. Did you notice the steering feeling much harder to turn than normal? Or maybe the shop forgot to put that belt back on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkahoi Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 @porcupine73; Havent noticed anything out of the ordinary with the steering..I checked and rechecked all battery and alternator connections, I tapped the starter and still nothing... and I have a manual trans..I would push start it but car is parked on a wierd angle and maneuvering it out will almost be impossible. @ LeolaPA: I just opened up the alternator cover and all belts seem to be fine.. @1 Lucky Texan: I checked all the battery terminal's even, took them off and put them back on again and still click..then no start..pushed in the alternator connector and still nothing.. @davebugs; Now that you mentioned it the dimming of lights was there before the timing belt job, the ABS light has been on for about 2 years. The belt did break, had to be towed in. The shop is pretty good with Subaru's, they've worked 2 of mine..(including this one) for the past 4+ yrs. He did mention when it got towed in that I may have damaged the valve's and it was possible it may not start again. Thinking I may just need a new alternator...? although the clicking sound makes me think the starter's gone too..? Thanks for all the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 At this point I'm thinking alternator and possible valves. SInce you can't drive the car to a place check battery voltage where it sets, but I'd also remove alternator and have it tested. Check battery at battery and starter. But the occasional miss could be valves or timing belt off one tooth. A compression check may help with that diagnosis. The clicking noise while running (if I'm understanding) is what's got me thinking valves too. But often by now it woul dhave a catastrophic failure. If you need any 97 2.5 heads let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkahoi Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Sorry I wasn't clear..the "clicking" sound is the sound it makes when I turn the key...like turn key-click..it doesnt click while running...if that helps..also its a 2.2 so wouldnt need the heads...I have the alternator cover off right now..thinking of just replacing the alternator...never done it before myself..I'm pretty handy but skeptical...how hard/easy is it to do..and if anyone has a how-to link or guide it would help. Thanks again. At this point I'm thinking alternator and possible valves. SInce you can't drive the car to a place check battery voltage where it sets, but I'd also remove alternator and have it tested. Check battery at battery and starter. But the occasional miss could be valves or timing belt off one tooth. A compression check may help with that diagnosis. The clicking noise while running (if I'm understanding) is what's got me thinking valves too. But often by now it woul dhave a catastrophic failure. If you need any 97 2.5 heads let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Alternator is very easy to replace. However....since the vehicle won't crank as it is...replacing the alternator, even if it is faulty, isn't going to change that. Have you checked your battery terminal voltage or load tested the battery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 REMEMBER to loosent the JAMB NUT on the tensioner. Where the idler is on it before loosening the long screw that adjusts it. One of those jamb nuts is hard to get at with fan plastic in the way but I forget which side (PS or Alternator) so that will be your biggest challenge. INfact sometimes I've jsut removed the tensioner form the block with htose 2 bolts to get it off but I forget what my reasoning was then and how my access was. Pull the alternator and go get it tested. Check for voltage at starter and at battery. After you know those voltages and the alternator has been tested you can make better decisions. Also usually another unrelated light usually comes on in addition to the ABS light when the alternator is bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Also be careful when unhooking the thick wire from the alternator - that will have +12V on it (unless you unhook the battery first). You don't want that lead to contact anything metal! (Unless you like sparks). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkahoi Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 @porcupine73: So...I did check the battery terminal's, I actually unscrewed them, brushed some deposit's off the battery+ terminals and screwed them back on and still nothing..I don't have the thingamajig to test the load on the battery but if it matters, I tried to jump it and still nothing. Your right about the engine not cranking..and don't know what to make of it...hoping/thinking I'm safe to rule out the valves since the car's been driving for the last 2 days after the timing belt was replaced...?..maybe just the starter is bad..? @davebugs...thanks for the heads up...I unhooked the battery so...no sparks for me... Wondering what to do from here.... Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The '96 was non-interference, and your 2.2L is sohc so the valves couldn't hit each other, so that should be fine. Could maybe put a jumper wire on the starter solenoid and put that to the + terminal on the battery to see if it cranks then. It's pretty easy to reach it right from under the hood. Just look where the fat +/red cable from the battery goes to the starter, the solenoid is the smaller wire right next to it. Just squeeze the little connector going to the starter solenoid to pull it off. Then hook on an alligator clip to that lead. Ideally it should have a fuse in it but if not just be careful not to touch it to the body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Lets mback up here. If it's a 96 Legacy Putback it should be a 2.5. Can we please confirm that also? Or simply SOHC vs DOHC is what we really need to know. WHich will tell us 2.2 or 2.5. Or jsut look behind PS pump I think and in the block it'll say EJ22 or EJ25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) the car clicking and not starting is either the starter or the wires / connections or the battery. so try jumping it with another car to see if it will start. or put a charger on it over night. how old is the battery? once started, take it to a parts store, i would leave it running unless you have jumper cables with you, and have both the battery and the alt tested. then you will know. they may make you turn it off to hook it up. as suggested, use a jumper wire from the battery to the small spade connector on the starter solenoid when it clicks but will not start. if is the starter it still will not start, if it is the wires / connections / battery it will start. Edited January 17, 2012 by johnceggleston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkahoi Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Amen to ruling out the valve's...!..now just so I do it right...attach the red cable to the selenoid and black to the battery...? sorry for my ignorance when it comes to this....the picture is a big help too.and thanks for the help. The '96 was non-interference, and your 2.2L is sohc so the valves couldn't hit each other, so that should be fine. Could maybe put a jumper wire on the starter solenoid and put that to the + terminal on the battery to see if it cranks then. It's pretty easy to reach it right from under the hood. Just look where the fat +/red cable from the battery goes to the starter, the solenoid is the smaller wire right next to it. Just squeeze the little connector going to the starter solenoid to pull it off. Then hook on an alligator clip to that lead. Ideally it should have a fuse in it but if not just be careful not to touch it to the body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkahoi Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Tried jumping it with another car and nothing..battery is about 2yrs old...I'm gonna try starting it with the solenoid..just waiting on clarification on how to in a few. thanks. the car clicking and not starting is either the starter or the wires / connections or the battery. so try jumping it with another car to see if it will start. or put a charger on it over night. how old is the battery? once started, take it to a parts store, i would leave it running unless you have jumper cables with you, and have both the battery and the alt tested. then you will know. they may make you turn it off to hook it up. as suggested, use a jumper wire from the battery to the small spade connector on the starter solenoid when it clicks but will not start. if is the starter it still will not start, if it is the wires / connections / battery it will start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Lets mback up here. If it's a 96 Legacy Putback it should be a 2.5. 96 Manual trans OUtback would be a 2.2 *(roller cams, Hydro adjuster, Single exhaust port) Get new solenoid contacts for the starter. Then replace ALTERNATOR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkahoi Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 So I attempted to start with the positive cable hooked to the selenoid...and this time click was not there but car still did not start..thinking you might be right @gloyale ordering the selenoid contacts from the subaru dealer...just incase anybody might have the same problem..I found a how to guide...see link below. Will update what happens. http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/80-electrical-electronics/23654-problems-starting-98-outback.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uniberp Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) When they replace timing belt both the ac and alt belts need to be removed and put back on. Getting the right tension on an old belt is tricky. Could be glazed, slipping, with no other symptom than poor charge. Also check your ground strap. Edited January 18, 2012 by uniberp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkahoi Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 I've called about a dozen places- including the dealer-for the solenoid and no one seems to have it...anybody have a part #, or another name for it...?I have a link to an ebay item "starter repair kit" that would work, but would rather not wait for the shipping.zzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Parts places sell REMAN starters. NOT starter parts. Look in your area for a place that says "auto electric" or "starter and alternator service". That is where you'll find the pieces to do the starter yourself. Me - I just go used (I have a bunch here) or used to have a local who has recently retired to rebuild them - I'll miss him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkahoi Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 Lucky you have the parts....and the guy...sounds like you drove him to retirement lol.....thanks for the tip.. Found a place not too far from me...taking off the starter tomorrow....any tips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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