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Rwd ej22


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18 replies to this topic

#1 Uberoo

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 02:10 PM

I have an 84 RX7 I just picked up.Its in good condition body wise and the interior is great,but I can't get it to run right.After rebuilding the carb,tweaking the idle/mixture screws,going for test drives and getting pulled over because the stupidly loud exhaust,I finally decided to pull the plugs and crank her over. Pst Pst Pst from the first rotor and SILENCE from the second rotor.So the rear apex seals are shot.More or less in a nutshell $1000 to fix an engine that is way to loud and drinks way to much fuel for the amount of power it produces.After seeing mellow65's EJ22 RX7 I got some inspiration.

Unfortunately I don't have the serious coin for a toyota W series adapter so I was thinking of running a 89-94 legacy 5 speed with the front diff pulled and the center diff spooled.I was just kinda curious how long it would last being rwd in a 2300lb car being driven the way all rwd's should be..Engine would be a stock phase 1 ej22.

#2 WoodsWagon

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 04:50 PM

It can last a while or it can break quickly, it depends on how abusive you are and if the car has much wheel hop.

I lunched a couple sets of rear transfer gears in the d/r 4x4 boxes. A friend bought a wrx with shredded rear transfer gears. They are the weak link, but it's not too bad to replace them especially on an EJ transmission where you don't have to wongleflute with the shift pills to pull the transfer housing off.

If you had a gsl-se it would be worth fixing, but the 12a in yours is meh anyways.

#3 Uberoo

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 05:57 PM

its just a gs,but its in good enough shape to justify an engine swap.

I don't know if it will get wheel/axle hop.I'm not really into the drag scene mostly just rally and the occasional drift around various corners in town..

#4 Uberoo

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 06:25 PM

Ive been looking up Drift union's 93 legacy and he is running the stock transmission in a RWD drift setup with a JDM 2.0T.He hasn't blown it yet but out back the R160 and the axles get eaten for lunch.I wonder if that's why the transmission hasn't blown yet..

#5 Numbchux

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 08:53 PM

5MT transfer gears are a weak link while still AWD. There are companies (PPG, I think) that make stronger ones, but at that point, you might as well do the toyota trans.

Long story short....might work.....might not.....

#6 Fairtax4me

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 08:56 PM

If you have a jig saw and a drill and a bit of time you could make your own transmission adapter. Another option could be to cut the bell housing off an Ej trans and bolt it up to a rwd yota instead of the yoga bell housing.
:-p just random idears to avoid blowed up gears in the Ej trans.

Or you just do a mid engine RWD swap and lock the Ej trans in FWD. :brow:

#7 AKghandi

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 04:44 AM

Why not use a dual range? Low gear would allow some smokey fun..:headbang:
I dont think it would hold a turbo but a n/a ej22 shouldnt be too bad especially with the light weight of an rx7

I want to do kinda the oppisite i want to put the rear axle out of an 82 gsl in my wagon..flexy flex.
I did a bunch of research and it turns out that axle is a 3.9 ratio..with kits on ebay for 4.11 and other ratios

That and as of recently i have a very nice but very rolled 82 gsl. 12a 5speed lsd rear disc brand new clutch and a full 3" magnaflow with some kinda racing header.122k red leather....lessons learned..:burnout:
( i am parting it out if you need anything)


Also kinda just ramblin at this point but what about making an rx7 awd? The only real difference i could see is the front knuckles have the steering linkage on the back instead of the front as with an ea series. My thought was to switch the pass and drivers sides with each other then it would line up.. Of course there might be a little more work than that but nothing really major. although i could be wrong i have been before lol!

Just my $0.43 (im generous:D)

#8 ivans imports

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:15 AM

deul range all the way have put alot of power through the 4x4 gears and blown only one set of tranfer gears ever and they are easy to change even a push button five speed whould do same transfer gears [no awd trans ]

#9 Uberoo

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 07:03 PM

as far as making the rx7 AWD NO.I may get flamed for this but I view RWD>AWD.

Say your in the snow AWD's natural home. AWD can lead to overconfidence because it takes alot more to make them slide,but when they DO slide things can go from bad to worse really quickly.So that leaves 2wd. FWD is lame and won't climb the hills around here so that leaves RWD.

So I may be insane but 98% of the time I would take RWD over AWD/4wd.

AWD only helps you accelerate,not brake or steer.

#10 Numbchux

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 09:38 PM

as far as making the rx7 AWD NO.I may get flamed for this but I view RWD>AWD.


You had me here....but then

Say your in the snow AWD's natural home. AWD can lead to overconfidence because it takes alot more to make them slide,


If your only priority is driving sideways everywhere.

but when they DO slide things can go from bad to worse really quickly.


This just isn't true, once an AWD car is sliding, it's more controllable because the front wheels are driven, and can pull the front of the car forward. Go ice racing once in a car with DCCD....you'll be shocked at how much more controllable it is with the center diff locked (4WD), than unlocked (RWD).


So that leaves 2wd. FWD is lame and won't climb the hills around here so that leaves RWD.


Also wrong. If either could be called better across the board, it's FWD. Better weight distribution (for traction), more control. Duluth has been called mini-San-Fran many times.....the biggest issue I've had in the winter in my Celica (basically stock, 1.6L, AT + Blizzak Revo1s), is finding a road that doesn't have a car stuck in it. The thing plows through snow like nobody's business.

From a snow storm a couple years ago. I was out for about 4 hours delivering pizzas. I did not need a running start to get into this parking spot, and did not need to shovel at all to get out:
Posted Image

So I may be insane but 98% of the time I would take RWD over AWD/4wd.


Again...I agree with that statement....then you follow it up with:

AWD only helps you accelerate,not brake or steer.


Again, false. AWD/4WD (with some sort of traction device in the middle) will help mechanically ensure that all 4 wheels stay spinning at the same speed. I found that out a couple times in my Loyale with the FT4WD. Braking in the snow with the center diff unlocked, push the button to lock it, and violently engages, and the car slows significantly faster. The stock brake bias (which is calibrated for the weight transfer of a hard, dry pavement stop) meant that in order to prevent the front wheels from locking, I couldn't use enough braking force to get the rears to help. Locking the center diff evened it out, and an LSD center diff would do the same.

I'll take mechanical AWD over ABS every day of the week. The control is left up to the driver, and a competent driver can anticipate the inputs needed long before a computer.

#11 Uberoo

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:37 PM

two winters ago after having FWD cars my entire life I completely gave up on FWD.My 93 FWD legacy with 4 BRAND NEW snow tires would not climb the hills around here half as well as any of my RWD vehicles.The legacy would understeer like no other into the turns and would fall flat on its face when it came time to accelerate up out of the corner.To the point that no matter how you tried to drive the car would only go walking speed with the front tires spinning. Even the darling of FWD handling the left foot brake( which works so well on gravel) did nothing to help with the understeer. The only time I ever had to back down a hill and get a running start at was with the legacy. Assuming I have decent tires on my rwd cars I can blitz right up the same hill with no problems other than the tail out attitude of the car.FWD is really good at starting from a stop on flat ground but as soon as you start going up a hill the advantage goes to RWD.

not to mention I find it easier to drive my RWD cars because the front end isn't constantly darting around anytime one wheel has more traction than the other. I'm not just saying this out of the joy I find in RWD oversteer but I have skied almost every year of my life and every FWD has behaved the same.Some slightly better than others,but still every single one of them the front end would dart everywhere and the cars would understeer into the corners.

FWD is supposed to be easier to master?You practically have to be rally car driver to manage FWD.

No my only priority is NOT driving sideways everywhere. Around here I see AWD/4wd's stuck in the ditches all the time due to overconfidence in their machine.When you take off from a start in snow in an AWD vehicle it takes some serious abuse to get it to start spinning its tires.So the average driver thinks its not that slick out there so its perfectly acceptable to go 65 when conditions only warrant 35-45.Then eventually they find a corner that does cause the tires to break loose and they end up in the ditch possibly even upside down.With a 2wd you know right from the start that it IS in fact slick out there and to slow the hell down...

#12 soobie_newbie67

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 12:45 AM

I see that over confidence issue in the snow every year, but with idiots in big rump roast trucks. They think their ginormous tires give them better traction right before they crap themselves cause they almost killed someone. They just don't think they have to slow down like everyone else.

#13 Subruise

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 12:02 PM

this discussion seems to have taken a turn to how people drive, not how vehicles behave. you can wreck a tricycle if ya cant drive one. i mean just because people are stupid doesnt mean drivetrains are. if you drive better w rwd, so be it. personally w my 4wd stuff i break it loose at slow speed then i know where itll break loose. no overconfidence here, be true to yourself and reality will be nice to you....usually. that is until some dude in a ej'd rx7 comes at ya sideways in the snow. and that is what will happen with that particular vehicle. are you really building that thing as a plausible alternative for a fwd legacy in the snow? or just because itll be one hellava ride overall?

#14 subaruguru

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 01:48 PM

Hey uberoo, I did rwd in my hatch with an ej very fun sideways and still good on the road for daily use. I used the bellhousing of a legacy 5 speed and the internals and tail of a 5 speed s/r ea trans. Removed front diff completely soft plugs in the axle holes welded transfer gears in rear. This also allows me to use a better clutch and flywheel.

I will post some pictures when I get to a computer

Cheers r

#15 Uberoo

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 04:20 PM

"until some dude in a ej'd rx7 comes at ya sideways in the snow. and that is what will happen with that particular vehicle". Reminds me of the time that I blitzed up a windy snow covered road in a 93 volvo 240 wagon with a welded rear diff.FWD cars couldn't make it up and even the 4wd trucks had problems.Of course every turn was full sideways action with the front bumper in the weeds...Although with that car "full sideways" meant about 30* to the road.It wouldn't go out any further than that,It would get to about 30* and just ride that angle all around. Oversteer when controlled is a wonderful thing. beside playing on gravel roads has helped with normal driving.Last winter I was driving from spokane back to lewiston and one of the corners was a bit greasier than the rest of the terrain.The rear end of my truck kicked out at 55 and I just countersteered and gradually lifted off the throttle and went right around the turn with no problems.Someone who didn't have any experience with skid recovery would have crashed,I'm not entirely sure why skid recovery isn't really practiced or taught in todays driver's ed but whatever.



#16 Subruise

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 08:14 PM

good point, but you misquoted me. I too wonder why the greatest nation in the world only teaches folks how to operate vehicles rather than to actually drive them.



#17 monstaru

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 09:32 PM

The short and the long of it is that your attempt at speculation is codswalloping retarded.
Stop asking what ifs.........
Find engineering specs on how these pieces break. Or break them yourself. EVERY build is unique.

#18 WoodsWagon

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 07:30 PM

Why not use a dual range? Low gear would allow some smokey fun.. :headbang:
I dont think it would hold a turbo but a n/a ej22 shouldnt be too bad especially with the light weight of an rx7
 

Low range actually sucks for doing burnouts. You don't get enough wheel speed so the tires are on the edge of hooking up and you get bad wheel hop or it just hooks up and bogs the engine.

 

I grenaded all my transmissions with a n/a ej22.

 

I spent a fair bit of time in RWD because the front axles would break. With the front parking brake and rear LSD, it was a ton of fun. Light them in first, hard shift to second, and modulate the parking brake to keep it from gaining speed. I left some loooooong marks down the roads. With the sharp full lock steering angle on the EA's they do great for donuts on narrow roads. I could spin that wagon around anywhere.

 

However, I went through a lot of transmissions. Some of them blew offroad, some blew on the street. I was slapping them together mixing and matching parts from the blown ones. I even found a d/r 5spd dumped out in the state forest and used gears out of that for one of them. I blew a few open rear diffs before I got the RX lsd as well, and a few stub shafts.



#19 Gloyale

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 01:03 PM

Low range actually sucks for doing burnouts. You don't get enough wheel speed so the tires are on the edge of hooking up and you get bad wheel hop or it just hooks up and bogs the engine.

 

I grenaded all my transmissions with a n/a ej22.

 

I spent a fair bit of time in RWD because the front axles would break. With the front parking brake and rear LSD, it was a ton of fun. Light them in first, hard shift to second, and modulate the parking brake to keep it from gaining speed. I left some loooooong marks down the roads. With the sharp full lock steering angle on the EA's they do great for donuts on narrow roads. I could spin that wagon around anywhere.

 

However, I went through a lot of transmissions. Some of them blew offroad, some blew on the street. I was slapping them together mixing and matching parts from the blown ones. I even found a d/r 5spd dumped out in the state forest and used gears out of that for one of them. I blew a few open rear diffs before I got the RX lsd as well, and a few stub shafts.

 

Awesome!

 

I found a pile of EA82 engines, struts and trannies (3at :( ) dumped in the woods. to make it even craizier It was while on the way to WCCS 10 in Astoria.

 

ha.

 

Yeah, as for the trannies....there really isn't any difference between the old part time boxes and the first gen AWD boxes up to ~98.  They are 99% identical inside....same bearings, shaft diameters etc.....  I'm guessing an AWD box with a welded center diff would be better just for the EJ clutch.






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