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05 legacy cruise control problem


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49 replies to this topic

#26 PAezb

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 10:04 AM

Excellent, I wonder what they did? Any change in fuel mileage? It's probably a PID type controller, they may have adjusted it to be less aggressive with the throttle. My '90 Eclipse GSX had a mildly abrupt cruise control, the head of product development at Mitsu told me it was programmed for the non-turbo version, and was giving a bit more throttle than needed. It wasn't nearly as severe as this, and there was no real need to compensate.


Haven't notice the problem on my 05 OBW-XT. Perhaps this problem is the opposite where the cruise was programmed for the turbo models, and affects the non-turbos...?

#27 nipper

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 02:32 PM

it could be just a bad run of ecu's, i bet they replaced it and didnt re-calibrate it. They can reprogram it in less then an hour.

Glad its fixed.

nipper

#28 hooziewhatsit

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 03:57 PM

awesome, thanks for the update. I'll let my grandparents know today.

Any idea what number the TSB was, or any other way to tell the tech to look up xxx TSB?

I talked to my grandfather about it briefly over thanksgiving, and he was saying that all the '06 cars, except the forester, still had the surging :confused: .

Thanks again for the update.

#29 langosta39

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 08:49 PM

Oh man its about time!!!!

I've been fighting with this problem, too. Did it also cure the bucking problem when you let off/step down while driving in lower gears?

Any chance you have the TSB number?

THANKS!!!!1

Andy

#30 Juan

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 03:24 PM

If it's that big of a problem, why not just turn the cruise control off when you encounter a steep hill if it's that big of a deal!? Come on, guys and gals, it seems like we're nitpicking here. Every car has its quirks... no car is perfect. To me, this sounds like a trivial problem. Granted, I haven't experienced it, and my 95's cruise works just fine. I just can't believe so many people are getting so bent out of shape over CRUISE CONTROL. What did we all do before there was such a thing?



Brian


The reason I don't "...just turn the cruise control off..." is because the particular stretch of highway downgrade which brings the cruise problem to light is a notorious speed trap. I set the cruise at 62mph to avoid getting a speeding ticket. I want a new, recalibrated CPU too.


Juan

#31 Pilgrim 54

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Posted 09 December 2005 - 12:21 PM

Excellent, I wonder what they did? Any change in fuel mileage? It's probably a PID type controller, they may have adjusted it to be less aggressive with the throttle. My '90 Eclipse GSX had a mildly abrupt cruise control, the head of product development at Mitsu told me it was programmed for the non-turbo version, and was giving a bit more throttle than needed. It wasn't nearly as severe as this, and there was no real need to compensate.

They say they reprogramed the computer. In '05 they went to a drive-by-wire system. We test drove THREE new '06s on the lot and they ALL did it. I agree that it is a bad batch of computers hence not everyone is experiencing the problem. My mileage is quite good. 2.5i with a stick. I get 28-30 mpg though I admit I drive pretty conservatively. That has been unaffected by this change. They are being mum about the TSB #. I think they're frightend we'll cause a recall. You'd think they'd voluntarily want this stuff fixed!!!

#32 Pilgrim 54

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Posted 09 December 2005 - 12:28 PM

Oh man its about time!!!!

I've been fighting with this problem, too. Did it also cure the bucking problem when you let off/step down while driving in lower gears?

Any chance you have the TSB number?

THANKS!!!!1

Andy

Just go and tell them to look this thing up. They are refusing to give me the TSB #. They're still acting like it's an isolated issue. This is a brand new bullitin so you'll have to ask them to check. But it's there and the fix works. If your dealer is a larger one they may be able to re-program the thing on-site. Good Luck!!!

#33 Zephyr

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 02:46 PM

Nice work Pilgram. I too was having the exact same problem.

I can live with a used car's little personality quirks and such, but cruise control induced sea sickness in my brand new car is extremely disappointing.

I'm going to go to battle with my dealer next... if you ever get the bulletin number, please let us know, I will attempt to do so as well.

#34 69800

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 12:03 AM

Had to put in my 2 cents. Yes the 2005 2.5 does have 2 different cruise problems. Many many people have these problems. 1 surging downhill 2 cutting out. Subaru has a fix for the cut out problem. Dealer sends computer to reprogram it. They DO NOT have a fix for the surging cruise. And NO, it is not right to have a surging cruise control. I believe if enough people go to the dealer and complain, eventually subaru will be forced to redo the cruise software and provide a fix. I CAN be fixed. It reminds me of the Airbus when it first came out with fly by wire throttles. The test pilot at the Paris Air Show was killed when he pushed the throttles up and the computer overrode him because it thought he would over stess the airplane. As a result he flew into a forest. They did fix that problem. It is the software folks. It's the software.
COMPLAIN to your dealer.

#35 nipper

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 05:00 AM

Had to put in my 2 cents. Yes the 2005 2.5 does have 2 different cruise problems. Many many people have these problems. 1 surging downhill 2 cutting out. Subaru has a fix for the cut out problem. Dealer sends computer to reprogram it. They DO NOT have a fix for the surging cruise. And NO, it is not right to have a surging cruise control. I believe if enough people go to the dealer and complain, eventually subaru will be forced to redo the cruise software and provide a fix. I CAN be fixed. It reminds me of the Airbus when it first came out with fly by wire throttles. The test pilot at the Paris Air Show was killed when he pushed the throttles up and the computer overrode him because it thought he would over stess the airplane. As a result he flew into a forest. They did fix that problem. It is the software folks. It's the software.
COMPLAIN to your dealer.


Also in north america complain to the NHTSA. They dont like things that surge.


nipper

#36 69800

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Posted 22 December 2005 - 04:01 PM

Ok here is the latest. My dealer read the Pilgrim post and called tech support. The said that the have a new revised flash update that was for the cars with cruise that disengaged but it appears to work for the surging cruise as wll. That must be the flash Pilgrim got on his car around thanksgiving. They are going to do it to my car but because of the holidays we are going to wait until
Jan 2 and I should have and answer by Jan 4 or 5
Mark

I will get tsb number

#37 69800

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Posted 06 January 2006 - 12:28 AM

I just got my computor back today but it did not fix the surge down hill problem. I am bummed. Then I see gmorgan on the subary legacy forum just got his computor done and this is what he said. I just can not quite figure out what the heck is going on.

------------------------------------------------------------

Quote "It is finally fixed.

Took back to Subaru and here is what they did:

Update(s): P2097, surge downhill while cruise control is operating


You might want to contact your local dealer to see you can get this most recent update."

#38 69800

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 03:39 PM

here is more info on what I discovered driving some 2006 cars. This applies to both at and mt trannys.
I drove an 06 2.5i auto and a 06 2.5i 5 speed. and have figured out what is different about the 2006 cars. When driveing down hill in a 2006 car, mt or at,
the cruise does not let the throttle come all of the way off. It holds the throttle open at about 5%. So on the same long down hill road my 05 lets the throttle off completely and the engine compression starts to slow the car to hold say 60 mph. When it hits 59.5 mph the cruise starts making rapid stabs to bump it back to 60 again and so forth. The 06 cars instead of thottleing back completely hold just a little gas on at all times thus the car on the same hill slowly accelerates down the hill but very smoothly. The end result is the 2005 car hits the bottom of the hill at 60 mph bucking between throttle off and on all the way down but holds speed well. The 2006 cars hit the bottom of the very same hill at 80 mph but the throttle never moved the whole way down . It remained slightly open with the instant mpg reading at 75 mpg where as my 05 instant mpg reads 99.9 inicating the trottle is closed. If the hill would have been longer I am sure I would have hit 100 mph in either of the 2006 cars. So if you want a smooth cruise that will not hold speed downhill buy an 06. Either way you have to turn the cruise off or you either buck and snort or speed down hills.

#39 Pilgrim 54

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Posted 12 March 2006 - 12:14 PM

here is more info on what I discovered driving some 2006 cars. This applies to both at and mt trannys.
I drove an 06 2.5i auto and a 06 2.5i 5 speed. and have figured out what is different about the 2006 cars. When driveing down hill in a 2006 car, mt or at,
the cruise does not let the throttle come all of the way off. It holds the throttle open at about 5%. So on the same long down hill road my 05 lets the throttle off completely and the engine compression starts to slow the car to hold say 60 mph. When it hits 59.5 mph the cruise starts making rapid stabs to bump it back to 60 again and so forth. The 06 cars instead of thottleing back completely hold just a little gas on at all times thus the car on the same hill slowly accelerates down the hill but very smoothly. The end result is the 2005 car hits the bottom of the hill at 60 mph bucking between throttle off and on all the way down but holds speed well. The 2006 cars hit the bottom of the very same hill at 80 mph but the throttle never moved the whole way down . It remained slightly open with the instant mpg reading at 75 mpg where as my 05 instant mpg reads 99.9 inicating the trottle is closed. If the hill would have been longer I am sure I would have hit 100 mph in either of the 2006 cars. So if you want a smooth cruise that will not hold speed downhill buy an 06. Either way you have to turn the cruise off or you either buck and snort or speed down hills.

Pilgrim 54 here
After all these months since Thanksgiving I must admit that I've not been on-site much to keep up with the latest on this thread. Update on my '05 Outback 2.5i is that it's functioning FLAWLESSLY...still. Have put on about 5000 miles since the flash and it does not surge going down hills. Cruise is still functioning like a normal cruise. Don't know whether I just got lucky or what. Do not have the problem you're talking about with accelleration down hill. You have a problem that you should be able to replicate for your dealer. Accellerating down hill can't be called "performing as designed" if you ask me. There is a deeper cause.

#40 Pilgrim 54

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 01:08 PM

Boy time flys when you're having fun...Our '05 OBW now has better than 32K miles on it and things were going swimmingly when one day on an extended ride the cruise shut off... Over the past three of four months this has gone from a V E R Y intermittent occurance to the way it was b4 we had the "flash". Have had it back to the dealer twice now and been dealing with SOA as well but have been unable to get it to act up while the tech is in the car!!! Am bringing it in Monday 02/26/07 and leaving the car there for four days till Thursday. Just going to let them take it and drive it to replicate the problem.. Going through this crap all over again and SOA acts like they've never seen anything like this before!
It is UNBELIEVABLE that anybody could take such a poor interest in the quality of a basic function such as this. With all of the paperwork that we've generated and the fact that this is our first Subaru one would believe that they'd be upfront and proactive with a lasting fix. But no all they want to do is turn a blind eye. Pretend there is no elephant in the room! I'm reminded here about their choice of tires to put on an automobile that is designed to go anywhere at anytime in any weather. The BF Goodrich PE92s on the car were so bad I had them removed and canned them. They still had great life on them with 29500 miles on them. Why shouldn't they they're made out of plastic!! But I digress...
I know it does not sound it, but we love our car and use the AWD weekly having to travel a dirt road a couple of times a week. The car is solid, responsive (for the size of it) and comfortable. I would rate it's overall build quallity as above normal. Perhaps this is why this fundamental, now reoccuring flaw is so exasperating. What is truely aggrivating is SOAs reaction to this reoccurring problem. Why not simply take the bull by the horns and fix the thing without making us go through these ridiculous hoops and ladders!!! I must remember the tires...What a shame. Pilgrim 54

#41 Cougar

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 02:55 PM

If the CC is just shutting down intermittently for no apparent reason I would check the adjustment for the switch on the brake pedal that is used to shut the CC off when the pedal is pressed. The clutch also if you have one. It may just be a simple problem like that occuring. I'm not sure if this is a seperate switch from the brake switch or not.

#42 Andyjo

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 04:02 PM

Sorry.. didn't read the whole thread, but with the 05's there's a few things screwy w/ the cruise control.
1) bring it to the dealer, have them update your cuise software & ECU, get all the newest fuel maps, etc...
if that's not it, and it's a manual transmission have them check the neutral position switch/washer thingy, it's known to come loose, and kick the cruise off.
when i got my OBXT the cruise would work for an hour.. then jolt and turn off.. and continue to do that, i brought it to a dealer, then updated the software, and it's all good now.

#43 Pilgrim 54

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 11:59 AM

Sorry.. didn't read the whole thread, but with the 05's there's a few things screwy w/ the cruise control.
1) bring it to the dealer, have them update your cuise software & ECU, get all the newest fuel maps, etc...
if that's not it, and it's a manual transmission have them check the neutral position switch/washer thingy, it's known to come loose, and kick the cruise off.
when i got my OBXT the cruise would work for an hour.. then jolt and turn off.. and continue to do that, i brought it to a dealer, then updated the software, and it's all good now.

Pilgrim 54 here...Took it to the dealer and left it there for four days. They put better than a hundred miles on it and discovered that the neultral switch is malfunctioning as you described!! They did not have the part in stock and have ordered it. Will have it installed this coming week and will post the results. Thanks Jim

#44 Andyjo

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 12:41 AM

Pilgrim 54 here...Took it to the dealer and left it there for four days. They put better than a hundred miles on it and discovered that the neultral switch is malfunctioning as you described!! They did not have the part in stock and have ordered it. Will have it installed this coming week and will post the results. Thanks Jim

hundreds of miles?!?! :eek:
that's a very common problem with the car, especially the turbo models.
i hope they filled up your gas tank when they finnished :rolleyes:
when it happend to mine, it was just a simple re-programing issue, but i read about other people having that problem ;)
if you're still under warrenty, get them to update your exu too, if you get nasty studdering/surging when you drop it into gear.. at about 2000 rpm... there's a hole in the fuel map there :cool:
or you could just get an accessport.. muha.... :burnout:

#45 Pilgrim 54

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 11:33 AM

hundreds of miles?!?! :eek:
that's a very common problem with the car, especially the turbo models.
i hope they filled up your gas tank when they finnished :rolleyes:
when it happend to mine, it was just a simple re-programing issue, but i read about other people having that problem ;)
if you're still under warrenty, get them to update your exu too, if you get nasty studdering/surging when you drop it into gear.. at about 2000 rpm... there's a hole in the fuel map there :cool:
or you could just get an accessport.. muha.... :burnout:

And we've had trouble with it since it was new. Had the reprogram et all...Living in the hills of western Pennsylvania we USE our OBW, 5M. We don't abuse it but we do our share of dirt roads out here. We miss it when it's not here but they did give us fuel and they ran it over a hundred miles not "hundreds of miles". The important thing is they think they found something. Thursday the 15th they're going to install the new switch so we'll have the results for you post that....Pilgrim 54

#46 nipper

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 02:24 PM

And we've had trouble with it since it was new. Had the reprogram et all...Living in the hills of western Pennsylvania we USE our OBW, 5M. We don't abuse it but we do our share of dirt roads out here. We miss it when it's not here but they did give us fuel and they ran it over a hundred miles not "hundreds of miles". The important thing is they think they found something. Thursday the 15th they're going to install the new switch so we'll have the results for you post that....Pilgrim 54


I applaud the fact that they did that. Aparently they told the tech, don't come back untill you see the problem or solve it.

Thats a good dealership.

nipper

#47 LuckyStrike

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 02:29 PM

Sorry... we have a flat test track. Do you know how hard it is to make a hill?

#48 Andyjo

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 05:50 PM

Glad to hear that they narrowed it down to the switch problem... i think mine is screwed now too... i found out the hard way, in the middle of a 1800 mile drive to IL and back... :rolleyes:

#49 d-a-g

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 02:36 PM

My '05 OBXT had the same problem, and it turned out to be a good deal for me. The original owner (down in SF, CA) ended up getting SOA to buy it back as a lemon. After they bought it back, the factory came out with the fix to the computer programming.

My friend who works for SOA helped me get the car after they had repaired it. I ended up getting the car (Limited Ed., MT, 28K miles) for under $15K. Of course it has a branded title since it was a lemon law buyback, but if I keep this like I kept my last 2 ('76 4WD, 351K miles; '82 GL 4WD, 327K when it was totaled), the brand won't affect value at all.

#50 hooziewhatsit

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 12:38 PM

I somehow got unsubscribed to this thread and just saw all the recent replies :confused:

I'll see my grandparents this weekend, so I'll ask how it's going for them, and if they've made any progress.

For them, it did seem to be a fuel map related issue, since CC would continue to work, it just wasn't smooth at all when going down hills. :shrug I'll know more this weekend.

-Dave




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