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I'm Sorry! Another TOD Thread


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17 replies to this topic

#1 Mr. Wob

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 09:31 PM

93 Loyale Wagon - it used to be quiet, then a slight tick that would fade as it heat up. Tonight, a pretty loud tick and I waited and revved to 2.5-3k a few times to warm it up and it didnt go away. I know the car needs an oil change and I am going to do that on Friday. I am not sure if I can get my hands on MMO since I live in Manhattan Pepboys are non-existant.

I havent chnaged the oil since I got the car - I know I am a shlub - but its only got about 3000 on it since I bought it, but one day it was low and I added a quart of 10/40. Next time I checked it was a good 1/4 overfilled! I have yet to drain that out too. What weight should I use now and what how much do these subbies take? 4.25? or should I do a qt of ATF fluid plus the remaining oil?

Sounds like it could be a bit louder on the rear passenger side too.

I have to drive for 300 miles on saturday and I want to feel, you know, not horrible. :)

#2 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 09:47 PM

4 quarts - I personally use 10w40 as my engines have over 100k, and the main bearings tend to get sloppy on the EA series engines.

You don't need MMO - just use a quart of ATF (dexron automatic transmission fluid). It's both cheaper, and virtually the same thing. Lots of detergents. Then do another oil change after a few hundred miles - EVEN if the tick doesn't go away. You need to flush out the goop that the ATF worked loose and go at it again.

What does your oil pressure look like? Dirty lifters are not always the cause of the ticking, and in your case possibly more so since you describe the tick as being there before, but usually going away.... the oil pump seals are probably shot. They get hard, and partially sucked into the main oil gallery, and then they suck air from the crankcase. The air makes the lifters tick.

Try the ATF, and if it doesn't help, or only a little after a couple of oil changes with 1 quart of ATF, then you most likely are due for oil pump seals and/or a new oil pump.

GD

#3 Crown Loyale

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 03:51 AM

My 1990 Loyale wagon was doing the same thing. When I'd start the car to let it idle, it would tick like crazy. Sometimes even after it was at running temp. I run Moble 1 in everything I own, and my Loyale is no different. I was feeling froggy so I bought a can of seafoam and tried it out. I poured 1/3 can into PCV and another 1/3 can in crankcase, and kept the rest for later. This worked like a charm. After a week she is still TOD free

#4 Bucky92

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 04:07 AM

My TOD is very temp related.. Summer months is practically non-exsistant..but once it starts getting cooler it comes back with a vengence. I have been waking up to the 50s in the morning and Bucky sounds like he is going to explode when first started.
I have been running this car for 3 years like this...I use seafoam religiously ( ask Tommy ..he got himself yelled at for using what I had left in his dirt bike and not replacing it:grin: I told him next time use the full bottle of MMO cause the Seafoam is Buckys:lol: :lol: ) I have replaced the oil pump seal and it worked for a short time..I think My culprit is I dont change the oil enough..its not from mileage but from time...I dont put enough miles on the car..it takes me 5-6 months to get 3000. ( I have 2200 more till he hits the 200,000 mile mark..maybe by spring)
So your Loyale could be like mine...its been cooler in the morning.

#5 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 04:24 AM

If the lifters are allowed to tick for long enough, the lifter bore will wear to a point where no amount of cleaning or lubrication will help. At this point replacement of the lifters is required.

The lifter don't compress much at all when normally inflated. And they do so under hydrualic force. The air inside the lifter causes them to compress and release rapidly, and being an extremely close tollerance part they rapidly wear to a state where they will continually leak, and require higher and higher oil pressures to stay inflated. This is the reason why many have limited results replacing oil pump seals.

Fortunately, the lifters are relatively easy to replace when doing the timing belts, and there is a link to a company floating around the board here that rebuilds them for only a few $$ each.

GD

#6 daeron

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 05:03 AM

GD.. i dont think i have ever heard (read) that point made. thank you.

how would one go about a visual inspection of the lifters in a potential set of JY cylinder heads? im thinking of getting a spare set of heads, and getting them prepped before i even go in to do my headgasket job.... so that would be a know-nothing head. Im sure once i got them back into the shop i could identify potential problems, but if i can see a difference between some OKs in the junkyard, and some i-dont-think-so's.....I would like to be able to look for that.

#7 grossgary

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 07:36 AM

always change your oil right away if you don't know how old it is or it's been a long time. i'd change the oil then add whatever you want after the fact. that old stuff has got to come out, it's not very HLA friendly.

#8 Mr. Wob

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 07:52 AM

thanks for the responses, I know this has been beat to death.

The oil was pretty clean when I got the car, so I just let it go, and it has been cooler so I am sure that has something to do with the noise. Also, due to Manhattan parking rules, the car gets a lot of cold start, cold shut down. I try to let it warm up when I can, but its not always possible.

I am going to do an oil change with a qt of ATF fluid and hope it goes away a bit before I drive 300 miles. I was only going to keep the car for the summer, but as big of a PITA it is to have, I really like it and its proved useful many times.

Its got 147,000 on the clock and starts right up for me all the time and this louder tick got me worried. Doing a pump seal or lifters is not feasible for me right now as I just dont have the place to do it. NYC tends to frown upon engine work on the street, so I am going to be sneaky and change my oil. Gotta love I can slide under the car with no ramps :)

So 3qts 10/40, 1 qt ATF and then oil change #2 say in 500-600 miles? I was a bit scared to rev the car at all, but it seems like from some posts it has helped. My biggest fear was that I was revving a head that was gettign no oil, but that doesnt seem to be the culprit.

#9 bgd73

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 08:04 AM

You are far enough north to mention some of my probs--
Colder weather climbing in will make it happen on newer oil, or not enough. An oddity I noticed is the disappearing act of .25-.5 after changing oil. I have assumed it to be new filters soaking it in, maybe even changing density defying the appearance of how much filter can hold. My car down less than .5 quart lets me know with mild tod it needs more. 147k is nothing, feel free to work worry free with it.:) If you can still see through the oil on the dipstick, just keep it full at the mileage you are at between intervals, the oil shouldn't even be that old.Acoording to maintenance 7500 is feasible. I never go that far, but some people do...

#10 grossgary

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 08:05 AM

i'd probably just change the oil first. if that doesn't help, add the ATF a little before the next change.

#11 Bill90Loyale

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 08:28 AM

i'd probably just change the oil first. if that doesn't help, add the ATF a little before the next change.

If it were mine, I'd put about six ounces of Seafoam in the crankcase and take her for a spirited run on the interstate if you have one. Forty miles at 75 or 80 mph can be quite helpful in clearing out those small oil passages.

#12 Mr. Wob

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 08:49 AM

wait my Loyale will do 80? :grin:

#13 grossgary

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 09:51 AM

i like bills idea of seafoam if you're not going to change the oil for awhile. i would leave running with ATF in the engine as an intermediate step, not a first step. i've done it plenty of times with no problem and others have as well (like GD mentioned), but i like to keep as much oil in there as possible unless it doesn't work.

#14 Mr. Wob

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 01:09 PM

thanks grossgary.

i may do a half qt because its definately a bit hard to find a place with Marvel or Seafoam around here. Its been a little bit since I had the car really driving, probably a good 12+ starts that I would drive a block and park and shut it down. That plus the cooler weather probably plays a big role. Hell a good oil change may even shut it up for a little while.

#15 Mr. Wob

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 09:29 PM

So I figured what the hell and I beat the car like it owed me money and guess what? Tick got quiet, then went away! I am still going to change the oil, but I am glad it doesnt sound like I am driving an old Rabbit Diesel anymore :)

Thanks guys.

#16 raucious

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:38 PM

Tick of Death still there, new VLA's, new reinforced o-ring seals, new oil pump.


Edited by raucious, 02 March 2014 - 03:42 PM.


#17 grossgary

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:38 PM

1.  reseal oil pump

2.  new oil pump

3.  new HLA's

4.  new cam carrier orings

5.  might be too much clearance between HLA's and rocker arms for some reason?  buckets are warn?

 

after that you've got some issues to diagnose - is it on both sides or just one? 

 

oil supply may be compromised due to wear or clogging in oil passage (one member had it caused due to RTV broken off and stuck in oil passage).



#18 jono

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 05:42 PM

gudgeon pin bush ?






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