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2000 Outback Auto Transmission Problem


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18 replies to this topic

#1 JimFierst

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 10:42 AM

I spent the last hour+ combing the 16 pages of posts for this problem and did not find it. The vehicle is a 2000 Outback wagon with 114,000 miles. The trans had the fluid and filter changed at 50 & 100K. The vehicle has never been overloaded ofr used for towing. The problem is as follows;
When sitting in gear when idling at a stop there appears to be a shudder or vibration coming from the trans . If i move the gear selector to neutral it stops and when I move it to drive or reverse it starts again. The problem is much worse when cold and sometimes is not very noticible after driving a while. When warm if I stop and select neutral then and reselect drive or reverse it will do the shudder or vibrate.
Anyone know the cause of this ? I am locarted in a city with out a Subaru dealer and am hesitant to take it any where else for diagnostics.
TIA E-mail me direct.Jim
fierstja@frontiernet.net

#2 nipper

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 11:33 AM

I think your looking in the wrong place. You may think its the tranny, but its the engine when its under load at idle. There really isnt anything in the tranny spinning when the car is stopped in drive, as opposed to being in neutral. in fact there are a few more things spinning in neutral.
In drive with the car stoped you have the torque converter and the front pump moving. COuld be the transmission mount, but i think its someplace else. When was the last time this car had a plugs wires done.


nipper

#3 Chip

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 11:35 AM

I have exactly the same problem on my 98 OB. It's been doing it now for over 2 years...I'm so used to it now that I always pop it into neutral when I get to a red light.
I put Mobil 1 syn tranny fluid in, hoping it would fix it but it didn't change anything.

Good luck.

#4 Manarius

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 11:53 AM

We just had a thread about this recently - it's all about you trying to hold the car from moving when it wants to go.

#5 porcupine73

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 12:08 PM

Did you have any half shafts/cv joints replaced or serviced recently?

#6 RallyKeith

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 12:24 PM

We just had a thread about this recently - it's all about you trying to hold the car from moving when it wants to go.


Yup, I 100% agree with Manarius.

Are you using the Defrost a lot more now than you used to? When Defrost only is selected on the climate control, the AC compressor is engaged and the engine is kicked into high idle. The extra RPM from the Engine turns into more push trying to make the car move, and gets turned into load on the engine and extra vibration. Next time it's doing this try turning off the climate control completely (turn fan completely off and move the selector to something like the feet) and I bet it gets better or goes away. :burnout:

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#7 nipper

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 12:25 PM

Yup, I 100% agree with Manarius.

Are you using the Defrost a lot more now than you used to? When Defrost only is selected on the climate control, the AC compressor is engaged and the engine is kicked into high idle. The extra RPM from the Engine turns into more push trying to make the car move, and gets turned into load on the engine and extra vibration. Next time it's doing this try turning off the climate control completely (turn fan completely off and move the selector to something like the feet) and I bet it gets better or goes away. :burnout:

Keith


and out of curiosity what is your idle RPM

nipper

#8 JimFierst

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 12:49 PM

Getting back to everyone..
!. If the thread was among the 16 pages of posts I looked at I missed it.
2. Idle speed is 750
3. I do not use the defroster and the heater control is set on the floor.Changing it just now makes no difference.
4. The condition get a little worse with the a/c on as the idle goes up 50 rpm or so.
5. I just had both half shafts replaced with aftermarket assemblies and both O2 sensors replaced at the same time.
6. I had the motor mounts inspected at that time.
7. Plug wires have not been replaced.

A local shop seems to think that cleaning the injectors and fuel delivers system will make a difference but I am rejecting that.
Any other thoughts ?
Jim

#9 Manarius

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 01:31 PM

and out of curiosity what is your idle RPM

nipper

My idle RPM in neutral is like 500. My idle when held under load is exactly same, if not just a tick lower (maybe 50RPM). However, at idle, my car is smooth and when in drive and holding the brake, the car shakes a small bit.

Trust me, I've felt car shake and what I get from holding the car from moving is not what I'd call shake or vibration.


#10 nipper

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 04:42 PM

That seems a little low, i thought it was supposed to be 600-800 rpm. A too low an idle speed will cause vibration.

nipper

#11 nipper

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 04:45 PM

Getting back to everyone..
!. If the thread was among the 16 pages of posts I looked at I missed it.
2. Idle speed is 750
3. I do not use the defroster and the heater control is set on the floor.Changing it just now makes no difference.
4. The condition get a little worse with the a/c on as the idle goes up 50 rpm or so.
5. I just had both half shafts replaced with aftermarket assemblies and both O2 sensors replaced at the same time.
6. I had the motor mounts inspected at that time.
7. Plug wires have not been replaced.

A local shop seems to think that cleaning the injectors and fuel delivers system will make a difference but I am rejecting that.
Any other thoughts ?
Jim


the book suggests a dirty throttle plate in the throttle body. I would start there first. no sense in cleaning injectors without looking at everything upstream first, Also how clean is the idle speed control motor?

nipper

#12 Manarius

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 04:56 PM

That seems a little low, i thought it was supposed to be 600-800 rpm. A too low an idle speed will cause vibration.

nipper

I know vibration and even with my idle being a little low (It may be 500..it may be 750) whatever it is, it idles correctly. I know vibration from an engine running on incorrect timing and the vibration that these people describe is not what I would call a serious vibration. If your idle is too low, the vibration would be obscene and it wouldn't go away when it neutral. It's exactly what I said before in the thread - you're holding the car back and that kinetic energy has to be released somewhere and it's released as a vibration that people automatically assume is bad. Every AWD car I've driven has the same problem. FWD cars don't have it, and my Corvette definitely does.

#13 porcupine73

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 08:05 PM

5. I just had both half shafts replaced with aftermarket assemblies

I've seen in other threads people saying they got this kind of vibration after having the half shafts replaced.

#14 Manarius

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 08:16 PM

I've seen in other threads people saying they got this kind of vibration after having the half shafts replaced.

Why would that have anything to do with the car when it's not moving?

#15 mwatt

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 08:50 PM

I spent the last hour+ combing the 16 pages of posts for this problem and did not find it. The vehicle is a 2000 Outback wagon with 114,000 miles. The trans had the fluid and filter changed at 50 & 100K. The vehicle has never been overloaded ofr used for towing. The problem is as follows;
When sitting in gear when idling at a stop there appears to be a shudder or vibration coming from the trans . If i move the gear selector to neutral it stops and when I move it to drive or reverse it starts again. The problem is much worse when cold and sometimes is not very noticible after driving a while. When warm if I stop and select neutral then and reselect drive or reverse it will do the shudder or vibrate.
Anyone know the cause of this ? I am locarted in a city with out a Subaru dealer and am hesitant to take it any where else for diagnostics.
TIA E-mail me direct.Jim
fierstja@frontiernet.net



my wife's '98 Outback and my '99 Legacy GT both have that "throbbing" from the engine at idle. It is not a misfire; both engines run very well. The automatic trans cars seem to be suffering from this because they place a load on the engine at idle in "D". My "theory" is that as these cars age, the rubber in the motor mounts, transmission mount, and the rubber bushings in the "pitch stopper" (the bar that ties the engine to the firewall) are all drying and hardening, thus transmitting more engine vibration/throbbing (at idle) to the passenger compartment. I've inspected the engine and trans mounts in both of our vehicles and nothing is physically broken so I'm gonna' live with the "throbbing" at idle also.

#16 porcupine73

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 07:50 AM

Why would that have anything to do with the car when it's not moving?

I'm not sure; it's just what I've read in other posts. My guess would be the the shafts kind of oscillate. There's torque applied to them but they're not turning so maybe they vibrate or something.

#17 JimFierst

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 10:42 AM

Just to wrap up this thread...
I rechecked the idle speed and it is on the second mark and assuming the 1000 rpm range is divided in thirds it is at 660 RPM. More inportantly i found a deserted street where I could go from stopped in neutral to forward or reverse .Itested moving the selecter into gear without doing anything else . The car moved forward or reverse with no hesitation vibration or shudder. I am saisfied that the problem is idle speed related and will find a way to get it looked at at a dealer.
Again thanks to all.
If you ever get in to Fiats or Lancias look me up at my web site
www.whoabrakes.com

#18 uniberp

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 03:39 PM

I add to the chorus of engine suspicion, not tranny.

Small pulse loads for misfiring can 'stimulate' the tranny into engaging.

Ignition first, then fuel.

Getting back to everyone..
!. If the thread was among the 16 pages of posts I looked at I missed it.
2. Idle speed is 750
3. I do not use the defroster and the heater control is set on the floor.Changing it just now makes no difference.
4. The condition get a little worse with the a/c on as the idle goes up 50 rpm or so.
5. I just had both half shafts replaced with aftermarket assemblies and both O2 sensors replaced at the same time.
6. I had the motor mounts inspected at that time.
7. Plug wires have not been replaced.

A local shop seems to think that cleaning the injectors and fuel delivers system will make a difference but I am rejecting that.
Any other thoughts ?
Jim



#19 weddes05

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 10:31 AM

on your car i would try a maf. have the same issue now with a 95 ls due to an ebay intake. on the 2nd maf now and am going to pull the int. off this weekend. and also it isnt throwing a code

I have exactly the same problem on my 98 OB. It's been doing it now for over 2 years...I'm so used to it now that I always pop it into neutral when I get to a red light.
I put Mobil 1 syn tranny fluid in, hoping it would fix it but it didn't change anything.

Good luck.






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