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What is involved in a complete overhaul?


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7 replies to this topic

#1 MaroonDuneDoom

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 02:06 AM

i did some seatching but had trouble finding everything that i want to know. what would be involved in a complete overhaul?
is this worth the money? when, why should this be done?

#2 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 02:13 AM

If your rings are shot - or your bottem end is sloppy, then it's a good idea. Basically if you have to split the engine case and it has more than 150k on it, or has been neglected and is more worn than normal, then you might as well do a complete rebuild. That's not to say you just blindly replace everything - there's lots of measurements involved with micrometers and calipers and run-out guages etc. You replace what is not within spec, and then put it back together - usually with a new oil pump, and water pump cause it would suck to have either one of those ruin all the work you just did.

GD

#3 thealleyboy

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 10:19 AM

As GD said, a ring job (or anything worse) is going to require a complete overhaul.

A complete teardown is never a bad idea if you have the time, and are willing to invest $250 +, but a lot of times you can get by with an upper engine overhaul. This involves cylinder head servicing (if neccessary) a head gasket kit, and a thorough "60k" timing belt proceduere. This covers most of the biggies. Sure, the bottom end will develop wear over time, but not nearly at the same rate as the upper end.

Much depends on the types of problems you are experiencing. Why do you think you need an overhaul? Have you checked compression? Are you burning oil? A lot of miles on the car doesn't necessarily mean that its worn out if its had a good maintenance history. If you are not sure how to diagnose it, get another opinion.

John

#4 MaroonDuneDoom

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 01:32 PM

i was just curious because i want to get as many miles out of my baby as possible. it only has 114k on it. it only needs some upper work. a head gasket replacement. i blew it out during a MASSIVE overheat. i found a loyale automatic 2wd with 55k original miles and i'm trying to convince this kid that he can get a way better car for $750-1000. i know he can't, but he doesn't need to know that.

what is cylinder head servicing? is this just checking the heads for warps and the like?

#5 thealleyboy

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 02:54 PM

MDD:

A MASSIVE meltdown is never good. Worst case scenerio would be a cracked cylinder head. I would start thinking of a used replacement if this is the case.

I always take the cylinder head in to a machine shop for "servicing" anytime I have it off. I have a good relationship with my shop, so I always trust their judgement. A complete recondition is almost never needed, and if it is, they'll tell me so, so that I can find a better head that they can recondition less expensively. For a normal headgasket (minor meltdown), you could "eyeball" the head by laying a strait edge on it, but this is not as precise as taking it in.

In your situation there is good news and bad news...

Bad news: There is no way to assess the condition of the head without removing it. Although it is possible to remove the head without removing the engine, you'll wish you did.

Good news: You would have to take the head off anyway to replace the gasket, so the labor is already part of the job. I would take the head into a shop before buying your headgaskets. You may end up returning them.

By what you describe, my guess is that you have warpage in your cylinder head. If it's severe, it will not be worth repairing. You will either need a head or an engine. A complete used engine would be a better bet - especially if it is known to be good.

If your warpage is light, and you need only minor work on the mating surface, consider yourself lucky.

good luck, John

#6 viceversa

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 05:43 PM

i found a loyale automatic 2wd with 55k original miles and i'm trying to convince this kid that he can get a way better car for $750-1000. i know he can't, but he doesn't need to know that.

I will take this in jest....


IMO, the most cost effective thing to do is to get another engine from a parts car. That's what I did. I got a whole parts car with 90K miles for $200. Had to drive 700 miles to get it, and pay for towing and gas. But, 1.8L engine ran about $600 everywhere I looked so that was a good deal. I used some other parts from the car, sold the rest.

The old engine had 185K miles, and I was told it was running on 3 cylinders. Barely moving the car, although it could have been a simple problem. It was drinking oil and I got fed up fixing it and just another one installed, including all the EFI stuff.

Really, these cars are so inexpensive that in many cases, if there is any rust, or dents, just junk the old beater. On a not too old Caddy or Mercedes or something, I would definitely rebuild but a Loyale?

You can do it, but it is not cost-effective.

#7 dave valiant

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Posted 24 December 2003 - 03:03 AM

I've read in this post and in others "top end"or"bottm end" now on our Sube's wouldnt bottom end be center and top end be outers.

#8 MaroonDuneDoom

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Posted 25 December 2003 - 04:22 PM

i never planned on rebuilding, i was just wondering what was involved. i'm tryin to get ahold of that SPFI w/55k miles.




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