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tig weld for a cylinder wall repair?


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13 replies to this topic

#1 s'ko

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 08:04 PM

i have a SVX shortblock that has a notch the outside of the cylinder. Looks like there was possible gas erosion at that spot b/c the notch is not rough and it looks corroded.

The notch has compromised the sealing surface and stopped at the steel sleeve.

according to the person I got the part from it "ran fine and didn't overheat" the reason they replaced the shortblock was b/c the woodruff key was messed up.

I had a auto machine shop take a look at it and they said that it could be welded but they don't do that there. They referred me over to a welder who said that he could do it.

When I dropped off the part at his shop, I noticed a lot of aluminum engines sitting around so I know he does do work on aluminum.

I posted something on the SVX forum and they were wary of welding to get the problem fixed.

Is welding going to be a fix or is it a bad thing?

BW

#2 nipper

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 10:34 PM

Depends.

If it is in a non wear part of the cylinder, yes you can weld it. Then it has to be machined properly to restor the flatness and sealing finish. The cylinder wall is made of a steel sleeve.

Now will it work? really depends on how good the shop is.

nipper

#3 Scott in Bellingham

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 01:41 AM

should be fine if done properly

#4 subaru360

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 03:25 PM

I have had EJ25 blocks like that, if the head gasket is leaking slightly and let go too long the block corrodes at the leak point. The really bad ones I have just scrapped. I had one with just two small spots the size of the tip of a pen. I filled those with JB weld and it held up fine. Welding is the best way to fix it and will hold up fine if it's done by a good welder and cleaned up well beforehand. You'll need to deck the block after and maybe hone if the cylinder gets out of round from heat.

#5 grossgary

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 03:36 PM

I filled those with JB weld and it held up fine.

i wouldn't recommend that for anyone else. i don't know of anyone that would recommend that for a cylinder wall repair. i would guess the JB weld has zero percent of holding up any substantial length of time. though i agree the engine will keep running and you wouldn't notice any symptoms for quite awhile probably. that being the case, unless you disassembled them again or drove them 50,000 miles you might not know how successful the repair was.

#6 subaru360

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 03:46 PM

i wouldn't recommend that for anyone else. i don't know of anyone that would recommend that for a cylinder wall repair. i would guess the JB weld has zero percent of holding up any substantial length of time. though i agree the engine will keep running and you wouldn't notice any symptoms for quite awhile probably. that being the case, unless you disassembled them again or drove them 50,000 miles you might not know how successful the repair was.


This is on the deck surface where the gasket goes which is what I believe we are talking about and very tiny spots. The engine is still running fine last I heard. Take a pen and make a dot on a piece of paper, that's how small I'm talking about. Anything bigger it won't work. I would not even bother fixing the iron cylinder walls, at that point it's not worth it.

#7 grossgary

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 04:40 PM

i thought he was talking about the actual cylinder, the sleeve or something like that.

The engine is still running fine last I heard.

that is true of millions of less than ideal repairs. there are head gasket jobs that were never milled, cleaned with a wire brush, and used some cheap o after market head gasket that are still running fine and will hold up for quite a few miles. still a difference between that and repeatable solutions that last 50,000+ miles. seeing a car doesn't mean it has had any substantial use or miles put on it.

not trying to be a dork or mean, just laying it out there since this thread could easily come back up in the future as these EJ's age and this question comes up again.

#8 nipper

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 06:42 PM

if it was my car and my money, i would not use JB Weld.

see below


nipper

Edited by Skip, 19 December 2008 - 08:28 PM.
not germane to the discussion


#9 subaru360

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 07:04 PM

i thought he was talking about the actual cylinder, the sleeve or something like that.
that is true of millions of less than ideal repairs. there are head gasket jobs that were never milled, cleaned with a wire brush, and used some cheap o after market head gasket that are still running fine and will hold up for quite a few miles. still a difference between that and repeatable solutions that last 50,000+ miles. seeing a car doesn't mean it has had any substantial use or miles put on it.

not trying to be a dork or mean, just laying it out there since this thread could easily come back up in the future as these EJ's age and this question comes up again.


I think that JB weld repair will last 50,000 miles easily. I'd trust it to drive anywhere. If you're trying to fill in an 1/8" hole with it, it'll fail. Filling a few tiny pinholes on the deck surface is well within what it was designed to do.

And as far as heads needing to be milled with every gasket job, they don't. I'll argue that one all day. Not unless they are warped and Subies rarely warp heads unless they have been cooked. The heads are too short to warp. The factory finish on the heads is much better than what your average local machine shop can do and you are better off leaving it as is. Never use a wire brush on the heads or block, just a razor blade, rags and some brake cleaner and you are good to go. Always use the latest factory gaskets on a 2.5 DOHC. On older EJ22 sohc you can get by with aftermarket.

#10 grossgary

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 08:21 PM

to the OP - if the shop has extensive experience and feels it's a good fix, i would go with them. the shops i've dealt with are all very competent and know this stuff very well. they aren't in the business of guessing, or hoping something will work when it comes to tearing down motors and such. trust their judgement, it'll probably be pretty good.

right on 360. the conclusion is the application you're talking about is completely different from the OP.

i agree on all your points dissecting that fictitious off the top of my head in 2 seconds analogy. i'll try and lay off the analogies!

the gasket probably will make 50,000 miles. i also think it probably had a good chance of holding without the JB. either way, anecdotal opinions....

#11 Skip

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 08:26 PM

I agree with subaru360 completely
and
will not
(read this nipper and behein)
allow this to become a
discussion about
General Motors and there
need for funding.

Edited by Skip, 19 December 2008 - 08:35 PM.


#12 bulwnkl

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 08:49 PM

If the shop's worth 2 bits, their weld will do very well.

#13 s'ko

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 02:26 AM

360,

The notch I am talking about is a lot bigger than a pin hole. its about a quarter of an inch wide and goes all the way through the cylinder wall. The steel sleeve is intact.

We'll see what the weld does and if it come out true

BW

#14 nipper

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 09:55 AM

360,

The notch I am talking about is a lot bigger than a pin hole. its about a quarter of an inch wide and goes all the way through the cylinder wall. The steel sleeve is intact.

We'll see what the weld does and if it come out true

BW



Then the weld will be fine.

nipper




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