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98 Legacy: How to replace the leaking crankshaft seal


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#1 etc

etc

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 10:25 PM

1998 Legacy, 150K miles, 2.2L auto

I have a major leak at the crankshaft seal. The bottom of the engine on pass. side, near timing belt cover is covered with oil, which drips onto the exhaust, causing much smoke.

How do I tell if it is crankshaft or camshaft seal?

I plan to replace:

The crankshaft seal
Timing belt and tensioner
Water pump
possibly the oil pump O-ring.

Is there a good thread on the forum or elsewhere detailing how to do this? Step by step guide would be helpful.
I don't have a FSM only Haynes/Chilton's stuff.

Edited by etc, 13 April 2009 - 10:36 PM.


#2 grossgary

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 01:05 AM

yep, lots of info on here.

replace the PCV valve with a subaru unit immediately, it could help slow down the oil leak. it's only $10 from subaru and is very easy to replace.

i'd get the entire Ebay timing belt kit (keep in mind there are two tensioner styles, yours is "probably" the later style). they include all the pulleys as well at a very reasonable cost. newer styles are 100 more than older styles. which is sad since the older tensioners are more reliable. but you're replacing it anyway.

on EJ engines (yours) the crank seal is part of the oil pump. so the easiest way to replace the crank seal is to remove the oil pump, install the seal out of the car and carefully install the pump to the engine.

you'll want to remove the oil pump anyway in order to add locktite and tigthen any screws on the back as well as reseal it to the block in case that's leaking as well.

having cam seals and orings handy isn't a bad idea either as they could be seaping.

you have an interference engine. installing the timing belt incorrectly can cause internal engine damage. read a lot on here and the appropriately related endwrench articles, which you'll find with some proper searching.

good luck, they're not too bad. just give yourself lots of time the first go around.

#3 etc

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 06:49 PM

Thanks.

Do you have Ebay links for timing belt kit and the cam seals?

#4 EVOthis

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 06:51 PM

http://endwrench.com...leOverWin01.pdf ...this might be of some help to you...

http://cgi.ebay.com/...2|39:1|240:1318

here is one of the kits...however this doesnt come with H20 pump and such...I have seen kits that have it all cam/crank seals, H20 pump, t-belt, tensioner, idlers, and H20 pump gasket all for like $300 so do some searching youll def. find something...

#5 ericem

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 08:27 PM

Just make sure the pump is OEM. I would just get that kit, and get the water pump, and gaskets at the dealer.

#6 davebugs

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 08:37 PM

I highly recommend the Suby WP gasket.

I buy all metal cardone WP's for 50 bucks but don't like the aftermarket WP gaskets.

I saw mention earlier of seals and Orings- I use only Suby.

The Idlers/tensioner - ebay kit.

Timing belt I happen to use Dayco. Afraid of the Ebay ones (especially on interference engines) and Suby's are pricey.

This is the combination that I use for what I consider maximum reliability at a fair price and a complete job.

#7 etc

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 04:30 PM

here is one of the kits...however this doesnt come with H20 pump and such...I have seen kits that have it all cam/crank seals, H20 pump, t-belt, tensioner, idlers, and H20 pump gasket all for like $300 so do some searching youll def. find something...


Thanks for the links.
Question, is that T-Belt OEM? If not, is it worth getting an OEM one at the dealer? What is that Dayco stuff, is that OEM?

#8 davebugs

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 05:46 PM

In my neck of the woods back in the day everyone stocked Gates belts & hoses. I always had good luck with them.

Not that we're living in a mostly chain world Dayco seems to be the norm, my local guys also stock them, and I believe theimportexperts sell them as well.

I've never had trouble with them on any cars I've installed them on (Subaru, and VW mostly).

Some folks prefer a Suby belt - I won't argue but I don't use them. I do use all their seals, Orings and WP gasket, and HG's if needed.

#9 etc

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 11:38 PM

OK. Now, who has the best Water Pump?

#10 davebugs

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Posted 17 April 2009 - 06:31 AM

Personal preference and value.

Personally I get Cardone all metal WP's locally for 50 bucks.

Looks suspiciousely the same as Advance's "Signature" series for 55 bucks.

Folks have used the Ebay kits WP's - I think they are GMB. I have no experience with them but considering one for next TB job to try.

Or I think a dealer WP is like 80 bucks - you can perhaps save money buying it online.

I will say this. One time I needed one from Advance(my local place was out of them) and theirs didn't come with an essential gasket - I think it was the thermostat gasket but it had the WP gasket(which I wasn't gonna use anyways). So if you get one of those check the box. I don't know if it was a one time packaging issue or if they don't include them.

#11 etc

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Posted 17 April 2009 - 02:06 PM

Thanks.

Another question, do you do most of the work from below?
I have access to a rack and wonder if it's useful, or do you some of the work from the top also?

My radiator failed so that needs to be replaced also.

#12 Hondasucks

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 01:14 AM

yep, lots of info on here.
on EJ engines (yours) the crank seal is part of the oil pump. so the easiest way to replace the crank seal is to remove the oil pump, install the seal out of the car and carefully install the pump to the engine.


NO! BAD! Very easy to mess up the seal on installation! Remove the pump, make sure the big #3 phillips screws on the back are tight, clean the Fuji Bond off the pump and the block, put a bead of new silicone sealant (I recommend Fuji Bond but it's expensive cuz it comes in a huge tube and you won't use very much, so unless you can get a partial tube from someone, just some gray or black silicone sealant should work fine) on the pump, install a new O-ring, and reinstall the pump. Then, using an appropriate seal driver or large socket, drive the new seal in. If you put the pump on with the seal in it, it's very easy to pop the spring out of the seal and cause it to leak, and it usually starts leaking after you've put the front of the engine back together.

As for having a rack: Put the car in the air, drain the coolant, disconnect the fans, take the bottom bolts out of the fans (if applicable - some are not bolted at the bottom) and take the bottom bolts out of the timing belt covers. Lower the car, take the alternator belt off, remove the alternator and set it on top of the AC pump (no need to disconect it, just makes seeing down in there easier, plus helps when doing the oil pump), take the top bolts out of the fans, remove the fans, remove the radiator since you are replacing it, take the crank pulley off (You'll need to wedge a breaker bar against the frame and bump the starter unless you have the tool to hold the pulley), remove the timing belt covers.

Edited by Hondasucks, 20 April 2009 - 01:20 AM.


#13 etc

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 10:56 AM

Thanks. Do I need any specialized tools for this job?

#14 johnceggleston

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 12:11 PM

Thanks. Do I need any specialized tools for this job?


you need a way to hold the crank pulley when removing and torquing the bolt. ditto for the cam sprockets if you are doing the cam shaft seals.

#15 etc

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 12:48 PM

So what tool do you use and where to get it?

#16 Hondasucks

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 11:13 PM

So what tool do you use and where to get it?


I use the Subaru factory tools, but for what they cost you could get your timing belt done by a mechanic. There is a tool that fits into the four holes on the crank sprocket, that is used to tighten and loosen the crank bolt, there is a tool with two pins that is used to hold the cam sprockets, and there is another really handy tool to turn the crankshaft. The tools are made by SPX, and you can order them from http://subaru.spx.com/

The tools you need are:

http://subaru.spx.co...artid=499207100
cam sprocket wrench

http://subaru.spx.co...artid=499977100
Crankshaft sprocket wrench

http://subaru.spx.co...artid=499987500
Crankshaft socket

I don't know the number for the cam and crank seal installers, but a large socket should work, the main advantage to the installer is it puts the seal at the correct depth.

You probably aren't going to want to buy the tools, but I figured at least if you saw the pictures, you might be able to find something that will work.

#17 etc

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 11:15 AM

I printed some timing belt replacement manuals so they should help.

Question, where is the cam seal located, in relationship to the timing belts?
I understand it's right in that vicinity? So that in doing timing belts, I could replace everything in one shot.

Another question, should I replace the Timing Belt tensioner as well? The 2.2L / vehicle has 147K miles on it.

Edited by etc, 22 April 2009 - 09:43 AM.


#18 etc

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 11:16 AM

RE: tools

I don't think I need to replace the crankshaft seal? I need to take a look, as far as I understand, the cam seal leak is much more common on 2.2L?


Anyway, what can I use to improvise these tools?

#19 Hondasucks

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 01:06 AM

RE: tools

I don't think I need to replace the crankshaft seal? I need to take a look, as far as I understand, the cam seal leak is much more common on 2.2L?


Anyway, what can I use to improvise these tools?


You can use a chain wrench to hold the crank pulley to tighten it, and to loosen it you can wedge a breaker bar against the frame and bump the starter to break the bolt free. If it's a manual, you can put it in gear and have someone step on the brake, that usually works too.

The cam seals are behind the cam sprockets, you might be able to use a pin wrench to hold them in place to break the bolts free (they are pretty tight), the crank seal is pretty easy, it's behind the crank sprocket which you can remove by hand, and you really don't have to remove the oil pump unless it's leaking.

If you don't feel like tackling this job, it's roughly 3 hours labor to do the belt, an hour for both cam seals, and an hour for the crank seal and oil pump. It's not exactly cheap, but the rest of the service that goes along with the timing belt (fluids and spark plugs) are pretty simple things that you could easily do yourself. You might also try getting a Haynes manual, as they are pretty good about showing you what improvised methods you can use when the factory tools are unavailable.

#20 etc

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:42 AM

I plan to do it, I have access to a rack so it should be pretty simple, doing it from below.

I need to tear this apart and see exactly what's leaking.

Exactly which pin wrench do you recommend?

#21 bgambino

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 08:38 PM

NO! BAD! Very easy to mess up the seal on installation! Remove the pump, make sure the big #3 phillips screws on the back are tight, clean the Fuji Bond off the pump and the block, put a bead of new silicone sealant (I recommend Fuji Bond but it's expensive cuz it comes in a huge tube and you won't use very much, so unless you can get a partial tube from someone, just some gray or black silicone sealant should work fine) on the pump, install a new O-ring, and reinstall the pump. Then, using an appropriate seal driver or large socket, drive the new seal in. If you put the pump on with the seal in it, it's very easy to pop the spring out of the seal and cause it to leak, and it usually starts leaking after you've put the front of the engine back together.

As for having a rack: Put the car in the air, drain the coolant, disconnect the fans, take the bottom bolts out of the fans (if applicable - some are not bolted at the bottom) and take the bottom bolts out of the timing belt covers. Lower the car, take the alternator belt off, remove the alternator and set it on top of the AC pump (no need to disconect it, just makes seeing down in there easier, plus helps when doing the oil pump), take the top bolts out of the fans, remove the fans, remove the radiator since you are replacing it, take the crank pulley off (You'll need to wedge a breaker bar against the frame and bump the starter unless you have the tool to hold the pulley), remove the timing belt covers.


Hondasucks
You are soo right about the crank seal and the spring coming out. My first time doing it, I too thought it seemed logical to install the crank seal into the oil pump on the bench. Well, for some reason I had a heck of a time getting the seal to slide easily over the crank shaft....and the spring came out about 4 times on me.
Since you ar a sub tech...help me out with a PIA problem....how do YOU get the cam shaft and crank shaft seals out??? When a shaft protrudes thru a seal, what do you use, some kind of hooked instrument?? That's the only thing I thought of but it was a total bear removing them...I was cussin and swearing and worried I was going to score the aluminum...thanks!

#22 Hondasucks

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 08:02 PM

Hondasucks
You are soo right about the crank seal and the spring coming out. My first time doing it, I too thought it seemed logical to install the crank seal into the oil pump on the bench. Well, for some reason I had a heck of a time getting the seal to slide easily over the crank shaft....and the spring came out about 4 times on me.
Since you ar a sub tech...help me out with a PIA problem....how do YOU get the cam shaft and crank shaft seals out??? When a shaft protrudes thru a seal, what do you use, some kind of hooked instrument?? That's the only thing I thought of but it was a total bear removing them...I was cussin and swearing and worried I was going to score the aluminum...thanks!


I have a tool that hooks in behind the seal and out it comes! I got it off the tool truck, it's made by Lisle corporation, might be available at Sears, and is referred to as a "Shaft-in seal remover" Works great!

And yeah, I learned that one the hard way too, except with me it didn't leak right away.. Didn't leak when I fired it up after I got the belt on to make sure it would start, wasn't leaking after the test drive either, nooo it had to start leaking AFTER the customer had picked up the car :mad:

#23 etc

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 09:49 PM

Link?

#24 Hondasucks

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 12:09 AM

Link?


http://www.autobarn....haftpuller.html

#25 bgambino

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 09:27 PM

http://www.autobarn....haftpuller.html


Thanks HS...wish you were in NY...I could learn a lot...




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