Cougar

Have you tried replacing the PCV valve? These can leak.

Here is a quick low down on this problem for new viewers (at least as far as I understand it): The problem with the car is that it won't start up in the 'start' mode, intermitantly. It does start and run ok doing a compression start so fuel delivery appears to be ok. We suspect that there is intermitant electrical connection problem either in the ignition switch, one of the green fusible links, fuse #20, ignition relay, or wiring to and from these points. All these items supply voltage to pin 18 of the ECU while the key is turned to the start position only.

Your welcome GT. I guess checking the voltage at the protected side of fuse #20, while the problem is happening, would tell the story about that line for the most part. Testing at the ECU end would be the best though.

Since there is a warning light in the dash, this needs to tie to the exciter lead I believe.

Here is what my manual shows for the wiring to the ignition relay. The red fusible link ties to fuse #5 which feeds a wire that changes color to black/white, going to the relay. The other side of the contact goes too two white wires. One of the green fusible links ties to another contact in the relay and it changes to a red wire going to the relay. The other side of the contact goes to a red/blue wire. There is another critical wire coming from the ignition switch. It ties to fuse #20 and goes to the ECU via a light green/yellow wire-pin #18 at the ECU. BE SURE THERE IS 12 VOLTS AT THE FUSE AND AT ECU PIN 18 WHILE CRANKING THE ENGINE! __________________

Here is what my manual shows for the wiring to the ignition relay. The red fusible link ties to fuse #5 which feeds a wire that changes color to black/white, going to the relay. The other side of the contact goes too two white wires. One of the green fusible links ties to another contact in the relay and it changes to a red wire going to the relay. The other side of the contact goes to a red/blue wire. There is another critical wire coming from the ignition switch. It ties to fuse #20 and goes to the ECU via a light green/yellow wire-pin #18 at the ECU. BE SURE THERE IS 12 VOLTS AT THE FUSE AND AT ECU PIN 18 WHILE CRANKING THE ENGINE!

An alternator should be able to produce most of it's output power with RPM's over 2,200 I think. No matter what kind of regulator it has. I assume this alternator we are taking about has no voltage change at any RPM.

Shawn, Does the alternator only have one small lead connection besides the output lead? If so it sounds like the alternator is dead if you tied 12 volts to the field lead.

Since you have proven the ignition system works ok in the 'run' mode I wouldn't waste more time checking various things with it. If things were not right with it, you wouldn't be able to make it run by doing a compression start. It's the 'start' mode that is the problem. My last post tells you the location of the ignition relay. The fusible links are in a small black plastic box mounted on the coolant reservoir I believe. You should know where the regular fuses are I think. If you don't have a test light to check for voltage you need to get one. A voltmeter would even be better but not absolutely necessary. Keep us posted on the progress and your welcome for the help.

Here are some questions I have: 1. How many connections do you have to the new internally regulated alternator and if they are labled, what are they labeled? Don't count the alternator's main output lead as that is obvious. 2. How many leads do you have to the old regulator and are they labeled? 3. Is there an alternator charge warning light in the dash? 4. Do you have a wiring diagram available?

There is another poster with the same problem also. Doing more research in my manual, be sure to check your fusible links also for a loose connection. One of the green colored links supplies voltage to the ignition relay via fuse #20. Check for voltage at the fuse while cranking the engine. If you have no voltage there then the link is bad or the ignition switch may be the problem.

After reading most of the posts here, am I understanding correctly that the engine will not start with the starter, but will, doing a compression start? If this is so then you may not be getting voltage to the ignition system in the start mode. This could mean the ignition switch is not supplying voltage to the ignition system in the start position. Also check the fusible links for a problem. There is also an ignition relay I need to read up on. It looks like it is located under the dash on the right side of the steering column. It is connected to a brown colored connector. Check fuse #20 for voltage while cranking the engine. If you don't have voltage there then check the fusible links. One of the green ones ties to the ignition relay.

The FSM for my '88 wagon shows a black connector with three leads that may be on the left side of the steering column. I would assume it is the same for the '87 year also. It appears that this harness branches off a larger harness and it also has a black three wire connector that is for the cruise control system. Two other plugs go to the combination switch. To verify your have the right one you should be able to turn the turn signal on while the flasher is out of the curcuit. You will not have any light with the correct one pulled. Hope this helps a little.

Sorry SP, like I said, I just couldn't resist. It was too good to pass up.

I think what is happening is, the ignition is not getting voltage to it when the key is turned to the start position. Have you checked for voltage to the coil while trying to start it? It may be a bad ignition switch causing this. You probably have a test light to check this with. Since you stated that things run ok once it is started then it sounds to me the grounding question is not a problem. If it was, then it wouldn't run.

It's the LL Bean with the 3 liter-6 in it. Actually, I have never really measured the time nor tried to see how it would do. I just couldn't resist replying to this post.

If it takes my Outback longer than 4 seconds, I start looking for a problem.

Have you checked the fuel pressure? It sounds like the pump my be bad to me.

Here is a copy of a post that was from Subarutex about the same thing. Was just looking through FSM today to find this stuff. Here is the info: L - Blue B - Black Y - Yellow G - Green R - Red W - White Br - Brown Lg - Light Green Gr - Gray Ignition power source - LY Ground - B Positive right front - W Positve left front - Y Ground right side - LB Ground left side - LR Positive right rear - WL Positive left rear - YW

The two green wires with the mating connectors are there to run the ECU in a service mode I believe. You don't want to leave these wires connected for normal operation.

Sorry to hear that. It is important to just use a socket, and extension if needed, to start the plug in the threads for the first couple of turns. This will give you a good FEEL for the angle of the plug body to the threads. I stripped the theads on a motorcycle engine I used to have many years ago. It was after that I never used a wrench to start the plug in the threads. So far that has kept me from any further trouble. Never force the turning beyond what you can turn with your fingers only. If the plug digs into the threads you just back off and try to feel for the correct position. If you can disconnect the injector power leads to that cylinder then I would leave the plug out. It will sound pretty strange though while it is running.

After skimming the posts on this problem I didn't notice any mention of checking for an intake manifold leak. Have you done that? My '88 GL-10 had this problem and the idle was bad, as you can imagine.

Do you mean the plug is turning but not unscrewing?

Another poster on this site found out the hard way he had a bad new spark plug that caused him considerable time and grief to diagnosis. New plugs can't be bad so....NOT! I realize that having two bad new plugs on the same side would be incredible odds but you may want to try either swapping the plugs to the other side or get two other ones just to eliminate this as a possibility. If this doesn't help then I would check to make sure your injectors are ok. Ohm them out and see if they match the side. Measuring the pulse voltage to them would be good also. This would require a O-scope to look at them. If that is ok then the fuel to the injectors needs to be checked. You stated that you saw sparking so there may be a problem in the high tension voltage lines causing that. Also make sure the grounding is ok for that side of the igntion system.

You are correct. Since you didn't get a code you did right by looking at other areas for a fault. To Alia176, I would try some new plugs to see if that helps solve your problem also. If that doesn't help then you may want to change your plug wires to see if that works. If that is no help then you may want to check your CAS for a problem.